External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i
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  1. #1
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    External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    So I have ordered a TA211i, but there is one thing that bugs me about the unit. There is no gas solenoid for the tig side. Gotta use the hand valve to control gas on and off. It is not a huge issue I guess, but an annoyance and possible to drain a tank of Argon if you forget.

    I am considering building an external gas solenoid box for it. I looked at the control logic for the remote control 8-pin connector. It looks like I could hijack the open/close switch in the torch or foot pedal and use it to control relays and the solenoid on my end. Send the signal into the machine from a relay in my box. It wouldnt be too difficult to even give it an adjustable post flow with an off delay relay controlling the solenoid. I guess it would require a bit more work to make it 2t/4t, but 2t only would be simple and non issue if using the pedal.

    Is this something anyone has done before? It wouldn't require any modifications to the machine or torch. Just add in a short plug set in between the remote control and the machine. Could be made to work for any machine with remote control and no gas solenoid.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Great question. .......looking forward to responses!

  3. #3
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Should have just bought the 252i then.
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  4. #4
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Somebody should make this. If I were designing it, I would have it sense current by wrapping a coil around the cable. No need to tap into the switch.

  5. #5
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    I thought about the ct relay but the signal is only 15vdc and very low wattage. Also, you have the amp control signal running through the same cable so your signals would interfere.

    I am figuring it at about $100 to build one depending on the solenoid and how I enclose it all.

    As far as the 252, dual voltage is a requirement for me. Besides, I dont have the money to spend $1k to fix a $100 problem. Can't hide that kind of money.

    I think I will put together a test unit and maybe do a write up on it.

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  6. #6
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Well you should wait. The 252i with dual voltage is coming out shortly...

    The valve isn't that bad, you get used to it. I have it on my 141i.
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  7. #7
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Not familiar with the unit, but if it has a contactor in it you should be able to tap into what ever triggers it and use that to activate your solenoid. You can get small solenoids in about any voltage that you would find inside your machine and small ones are usually only aroune $35-45.

  8. #8
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    I wired in and installed a 12 volt gas solenoid and a 12 volt water solenoid. so that I could run tap water for cooling. I did have to wire in a 12 volt transformer to run them both. they come on when my contactor comes on. they neither one come on when I am using just the reguler rod holder. Mac

  9. #9
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    I was looking for the same kind of setup for my 181. Wonder if there's any way to adapt the existing solenoid that's in the machine now for the mig?......Mike

  10. #10
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    How are you going to factor in a delay for post flow on both gas and water?

    You really want neither turning off immediately when the arc is broken.
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  11. #11
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    That sounds like it works well tool maker. My goal is something external that can be put on or off at any time with no change to the machine.

    The design I have in mind will work for the 181 and 141 as well.

    Post flow is pretty easy. It is just an off delay relay. Siemens makes one that is adjustable .5s to 60m.

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  12. #12
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    An additional water tap water cooling is a simple add on as well.

    I should have a prototype within a week if the connectors come in quickly.

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  13. #13
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
    Well you should wait. The 252i with dual voltage is coming out shortly...

    The valve isn't that bad, you get used to it. I have it on my 141i.
    Some people just don't have the extra money! !!

  14. #14
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    I should have a prototype within a week if the connectors come in quickly.
    I'd definitely be interested in the gas part of it, yes the valve on the torch is simple, so simple I either forget to turn it on off. One way is ugly the other expensive LOL......Mike

  15. #15
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Another quick note on this as far as the torch goes. I have seen a lot of people complain about the size of the 26V so i called up the TA to ask about the 17V from the 141i/181i. I was thinking it may be the wrong dinse connector. Turns out their 17V works, just got to keep the amps low. Welders Supply called me when i placed the order to say I had messed up.

    Anyway, all the parts are ordered. Prototype may cost a few bucks more than I was thinking because of the cost of the off delay relay and shipping. Gonna power the solenoid from an external 120VAC source. A lot easier than trying to pull the power out of the welder and nothing to void the warranty.
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  16. #16
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Quote Originally Posted by Drf255 View Post
    How are you going to factor in a delay for post flow on both gas and water?
    Water? Is that even necessary? I switch on the pump on my cooler when I open the valve on my argon cylinder. I switch it off when I close the valve. There's really no harm in letting it run on and on.

    Yes, a 26 torch is huge. But so is a 17. I used to have a 17. Now that I moved to water cooling and a 20, I can't believe I was happy with the 17.

  17. #17
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Gonna power the solenoid from an external 120VAC source
    Sounds like a better plan. You'll never know what the original system was designed to support, the bit you add might max it out.....Mike

  18. #18
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Quote Originally Posted by rlitman View Post
    Water? Is that even necessary? I switch on the pump on my cooler when I open the valve on my argon cylinder. I switch it off when I close the valve. There's really no harm in letting it run on and on.

    Yes, a 26 torch is huge. But so is a 17. I used to have a 17. Now that I moved to water cooling and a 20, I can't believe I was happy with the 17.
    I agree the 17 is still large but in the world of air cooled, I will make due.

    I think the water solenoid is for tap water cooling, not closed loop. Agree no need to shut off closed loop cooler. Wouldnt want to dead head the pump like that.

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  19. #19
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Ive been using one of these for post flow on my 330 AB/P for a while now with no issues http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-110VAC-...item2a36921ef9

  20. #20
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    So better late than never. Finally got back from a bunch of unplanned travel and got to work on this.

    It works great actually. I tried it first with it all sitting about in pieces. Now I am trying to finish it out a little better. Here are some pics and what I did. Please forgive the ugly welds. I have been letting the intern try his hand at welding when it doesn't matter for anything.

    First, I got the plugs needed to add my solenoid as an extra loop. 2wires from each each end go to my relays, then 2 wires run straight through for the foot pedal amp control. One end plugs into the remote, one into the machine.
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    At my relays, I have two relays. Both are actuated by the switch portion of the foot pedal or hand switch. I am using 120 VAC through the switch to power both relays on at the same time. The plain relay on the right is used as a dry contact for the welder and gives the welder exactly the same electrical configuration as the remote switch would. The relay on the left is the time delay. When you let off the remote switch, it has a 1s to 100h adjustable delayed off. I know I don't need that much post flow, but got it on close out for cheap.
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    Finally, basic gas solenoid that is powered by the off delay relay and is now the tig solenoid.
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    What I like about it is that I can simply pull it out of the loop and use the welder exactly as it came from TA. It operates as close to an internal solenoid as possible with absolutely no modifications required to the welder.

    I will post a video of it sometime if I can ever figure out how.
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  21. #21
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Awesome, any chance you'd have a schematic and maybe even a parts list :-), where do you pull the 120V from, the actual origonal control circuit isn't 120....is it? I like the fact that there's nothing messed with on the machine.....Mike

  22. #22
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    I can try to put some of that together. The 120 is a separate source. Have to plug it in. I am waiting on a small fuse terminal I ordered for incomming feed. Not totally necessary but a good idea.

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  23. #23
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    So the origonal switches on both is controlling 120V? I'm not sure if I like that idea since it wasn't designed for that, nor was the insulation or wire. Not sure (it's been awhile since I've used it), but isn't the switch in the actual torch a momentary contact or is it a push on push off....Mike

  24. #24
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    The switch on the torch or foot pedal are controlling it. Even the cheapest of wire is still 300vac rated. I will look at the switch but it has had no issues.

    Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk
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    MM 300
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  25. #25
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    Re: External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

    Also, it is 50ma starting current and 5ma hold on the relays. The solenoid is powered by the relays that are rated for 15A

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