Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520
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  1. #1
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    Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Hello all,
    I have had this machine for a couple of months and apart from the LCD not working, and it only functioning on 220v, it has worked a dream... until today.

    When I turn it on there is nothing. I have checked the breakers which are fine and there is power getting through the machine`s back end but not making it to the front. The last time I used it was doing a in inconsistant cut with the plasma. The thing that is strange to me is that it worked fine but 2 days later it doesn`t turn on at all in any setting. I will be taking it to an electrician but was wondering if anyone has had the same problem?

    Link to machine i use:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/DOA-50A-PLASMA-C...16196004r28718

    TIA!

  2. #2
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    If you open up the back of the machine look for an internal fuse. The fuse usually has a glass body with two metal end caps.

    In addition try taking the consumables off the torch to make sure there still in good shape. a burnt electrode wiill also cause it not to work.
    Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma Cutter

    Sorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.

  3. #3
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Most Plasma cutters will appear to be pretty much dead if the air supply isn't set to the right pressure.... or maybe your air pressure sensor switch went bad. If you can locate it, you could try wiring around the pressure sensor and see if the unit wakes up.
    Miller Syncrowave 350
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  4. #4
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Quote Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
    Hello all,
    I have had this machine for a couple of months and apart from the LCD not working, and it only functioning on 220v, it has worked a dream... until today.

    When I turn it on there is nothing. I have checked the breakers which are fine and there is power getting through the machine`s back end but not making it to the front. The last time I used it was doing a in inconsistant cut with the plasma. The thing that is strange to me is that it worked fine but 2 days later it doesn`t turn on at all in any setting. I will be taking it to an electrician but was wondering if anyone has had the same problem?

    Link to machine i use:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/DOA-50A-PLASMA-C...16196004r28718

    TIA!
    Easy fix.

    Step 1. Go get your video camera.

    Step 2. Hit the record button, point the camera at the welder.

    Step 3. Grab a sledge hammer.

    Step 4. Smash the hell out of it.

    Step 5. Have an adult kick you in the a s s for buying junk.

    Step 6. Upload it to youtube and let us know when we can view the vid. I got my beer ready.

  5. #5
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Thanks for the advice Johnny Welder but I don`t have a video camera or a sledge hammer which is why I resorted to buying a cheap plasmer cutter, tig, and mma for 400 something. That and the price of the consumables is ridiculous. about $45 for 75 tips, electrodes, rings, and 10 cups for the one i bought. I will buy a good one in the future if I can afford it but I am out on a limb already cash wise.

  6. #6
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    The machine was tested and is working fine. I either have one of the 2 breakers not working or something wrong in one of the 2 hot wires in the cord but not both because i had a voltage reading earlier tested with one of those proximity type gerber red flash and beap testers.

  7. #7

    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Quote Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
    Hello all,
    I have had this machine for a couple of months and apart from the LCD not working, and it only functioning on 220v, it has worked a dream... until today.

    When I turn it on there is nothing. I have checked the breakers which are fine and there is power getting through the machine`s back end but not making it to the front. The last time I used it was doing a in inconsistant cut with the plasma. The thing that is strange to me is that it worked fine but 2 days later it doesn`t turn on at all in any setting. I will be taking it to an electrician but was wondering if anyone has had the same problem?

    Link to machine i use:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/DOA-50A-PLASMA-C...16196004r28718

    TIA!
    Can you please give a detailed connection diagram for the plasma cutter. I purchased one of these and I can not get the plasma cutter to work. Air is flowing but no spark to ignite the whole process. ARC welder works, did not try TIG yet as I need to buy the Argon gas.

    If you can share some pics with the exact conections it will be greate.
    Thanks

  8. #8
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    This is common for these 3 in 1's first the plasma cutter stops working, then the tig and all you have left is a stick welder. Then a door stop.
    Lincoln Power Mig 180C
    Hot Max Spool Gun
    HF 95136 and 60767 Plasma Cutter
    ALPHA TIG 200X
    Lincoln 225 AC
    www.georgesplasmacuttershop.com

  9. #9
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Quote Originally Posted by mechanic416 View Post
    This is common for these 3 in 1's first the plasma cutter stops working, then the tig and all you have left is a stick welder. Then a door stop.
    ...and as a door stop it'll work like a dream.
    Lincoln PowerTig 275
    Miller 251
    Miller DialArc 250
    Bridgeport mill
    Hossfeld bender with dies
    Logan shaper
    Jet 14 X 40 lathe
    South Bend 9 model 'C'...sometimes a 'B'
    Hypertherm 900
    Ellis 3000 band saw
    Too small a shop...too many tools

  10. #10

    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    I can see that it is not that popular, this machine, but I did not expect it to not work from day one. Since I'm not a professional and it is only a hobby for me, it looked like it will do. It is not like I'm going to stress it all day 7 days a week.
    Anyway any help is appreciated.
    Thanks

  11. #11
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Contact the seller and send it back for warranty. If it is not new or has no warranty your out of luck.
    Lincoln Power Mig 180C
    Hot Max Spool Gun
    HF 95136 and 60767 Plasma Cutter
    ALPHA TIG 200X
    Lincoln 225 AC
    www.georgesplasmacuttershop.com

  12. #12
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    For anyone that needs a plasma and a GTAW all in one and with only limited funds, I would encourage all to seriously consider a OAW welding kit with cutting torch attachment. For only a few dollars more you can have the absolute best equipment with a lifetime warranty made in the USA.

    m.cyberweld.com/porwelkit.html

    Cut, weld, heat, bend, braze and solder to your hearts content. No need for a welding hood or even electricity, if you are doing thin stuff and it's clean, other than the heat it's almost like GTAW and you'll learn a lot more about welding, minimizing distortion and you can even weld aluminum and stainless with the proper flux.

    If the decision is made to get more sophisticated equipment, you will always need an oxy-acetylene kit for something so it's an easy decision on where to start.

    Good luck!

  13. #13
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Regurgitated post from 2009 and the answer is still the same in 2013
    Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me

    What would SATAN do ??

    Miller Digital Elite
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    Victor O/A
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    Rusty old Truck

  14. #14
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Everyone should have a set of oxy-fuel torches in their shop as one of the first tools, it however is not a replacement for tig, mig, stick or plasma.....rather it is another tool with different uses.

    Still, the best choices for all of the above is to purchase each product individually. This way you can best match your budget and your needs....and when your needs change you often only need to upgrade one of the systems.

    The all in one units that include a plasma sure seem like a good deal, but their track record is dismal at best...


    jim

    Quote Originally Posted by pedaldude View Post
    For anyone that needs a plasma and a GTAW all in one and with only limited funds, I would encourage all to seriously consider a OAW welding kit with cutting torch attachment. For only a few dollars more you can have the absolute best equipment with a lifetime warranty made in the USA.

    m.cyberweld.com/porwelkit.html

    Cut, weld, heat, bend, braze and solder to your hearts content. No need for a welding hood or even electricity, if you are doing thin stuff and it's clean, other than the heat it's almost like GTAW and you'll learn a lot more about welding, minimizing distortion and you can even weld aluminum and stainless with the proper flux.

    If the decision is made to get more sophisticated equipment, you will always need an oxy-acetylene kit for something so it's an easy decision on where to start.

    Good luck!

  15. #15
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Quote Originally Posted by ophirbb View Post
    I can see that it is not that popular, this machine, but I did not expect it to not work from day one.
    Sadly while YOU may not have expected it to arrive DOA or die after only a short period of use, many of us know that is VERY common on these machines, and WE sort of expect it. Poor quality control and lack of testing before shipping as well as a poor design, means this is all an too common issue with these.


    Also since the people who import these seldom try to repair the, but simply send out another unit from the "spares" the factory sends over to deal with possible QC issues and bad units, there's seldom anyone who has any sort of wiring diagrams, maintenance manuals or repair instructions for these low quality machines. You sort of have to be an electrical engineer and back track the issues on your own. Also understand with inverter power sources like these, when one minor component blows, they usually take out a ton of other parts at the same time. You need the equipment to check every single part BEFORE you power things back up. If not, and you replace the mofsets or IGBT's for example, because they are blown, and the original issue was something else, you simply blow up all the new parts as soon as the power hits them the very 1st time.

    Most repair places won't touch them. Cost wise the labor will almost immediately exceed the cost of buying a similar new unit. Then they are left with a machine they have to warranty, that they can't sell, if the owner dumps the unit and won't pay. At least with a name brand machine, they have instructions to go from for checking parts and factory techs to help them, and they know they at least will get some of their money back if the owner stiffs them.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  16. #16

    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Thanks for all the replies.
    I guess I am out of luck unless the seller will come up with a solution.
    So at a budget of let's say 400 bucks what plasma cutter you experts recomend?
    A link to the product will be greatly appreciated.


    Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

  17. #17
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    I can't really think of many if any plasmas, even the cheap imports under $400 new. A quick peak even at imports like Eastwoods are above that price. You usually get what you pay for.


    Me personally I'd go with a Hypertherm unit as my #1 choice hands down. All the others are a distant 2nd. Thermal Dynamics would probably #2. Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, Essab... would all come next in no particular order. Note all of these are way above your budget. Good name brand units are a better value for issues that aren't as easy to measure as cash you need to pull out of your pocket when you buy the item. There's things like consumable costs and life. Not something to be ignored if you want to actually use the machine you buy. Also there's service and support. More on that later. Then there is resale value. If you buy a unit now, will it still meet your needs 3 or 4 years down the road? You know any of these name brands will hold their value, and chances are you'll get way more for one used for the reasons listed above when you go to sell it and upgrade.

    If I was going to go with a cheap import, I'd by the selling company more than the unit itself. I'd expect the machine to have issues, and thus want to be sure the company I'm buying from has a history of standing behind it's products for the life of the warranty. That they won't give me the run around, that I can contact them and get a reply, and that they have a reputation to uphold vs just selling a unit for cheap. I'll admit that's a big part of why I'd go with a name brand above, but with those, I'd expect a lot more for my money. With a cheap import, I'll assume it's disposable, and when it breaks out of warranty, it' trash and I'd buy a new one. Eastwoods has had a decent reputation in the past with other things for having good customer service. I'm not 100% sure about that with their welders after a few comments from those who had issues with their welders in the past year or so. I'd still rate them way above other importers who will remain nameless. Northern also generally has a decent reputation, especially for what is a big internet "box store". I've never had any problems with items I've ordered from them. Unfortunately way too many people find that a good price is more expensive in the long run. Buying 2 or 3 cheap units is often way more expensive in the long run vs simply saving up and buying a quality machine right from the start.

    Used is a good way to get both a name brand, and a low price. The key here is you take a risk that the machine has issues the seller isn't fully disclosing. Thus you want to be sure you fully test an item when you go to buy it, and understand that the chance the unit may have issues is part of the price you pay to save money. At lest you know chances are you can get parts and service if there is a minor issue down the road.


    It's already been suggested that a good OA kit is worth looking into. That IS in your price range if you shop smartly. I find a plasma is often overrated. Too many guys want one right away, when they can make do with other methods of cutting ( no offense Jim ) You also can't heat, bend and weld/solder with plasma like you can OA. The real question is WHY you NEED a plasma. Many times there are other better tools, or tools that will do almost a good a job, at a much lower cost to acquire. Knowing what you need to cut and why, lets us make better suggestions.

    However there are some jobs plasma excels in where something like OA simply won't "cut" it, cutting nonferous metals and SS for example. It's also great for really thin stuff. Of all my dozens of cutting tools, my plasma at home gets the least use on average. I will admit that since the tech school has a plasma set up there, that I do use it more frequently there than I do their OA torch ( except the track torch set up to bevel plates). It's simply easier to flip a switch and start cutting vs breaking out the OA gear.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  18. #18

    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    @DSW
    Thanks for a detailed response.
    I agree with almost all you wrote, the thing is that I really do not need a professional nachine that will work all day, but I didn't realize that the hobby "grade" machine will be that far away in quality.
    I had some very good hobbiest tools that lasted a long time just because they were used as what they meant to be but I must say this is the first time I had a machine not working from the get go.
    OA in Israel is not so popular now days and very expensive, and I fed up going to get more gas etc so I thought a plasma cutter will be nice. TIG is a bonus for me.
    I usually do not buy electricall tools from abroad because of the hussle in case it is defective but here we do not have a hobby grade plasma cutters so I was hoping to find one abroad. Really did not believe I will get that bad of a product.
    More, the eBay seller had a very good reviews so I thought it can not be a bad product as it turned out to be.

    It is now in the seller corner to come up with a solution. I hope he will.

    Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

  19. #19
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Quote Originally Posted by ophirbb View Post
    I had some very good hobbiest tools that lasted a long time just because they were used as what they meant to be but I must say this is the first time I had a machine not working from the get go.
    OA in Israel is not so popular now days and very expensive, and I fed up going to get more gas etc so I thought a plasma cutter will be nice.
    Knowing where you are located helps. That's why it's not a bad idea to add your location to your profile so we know at a glance where a person is from. Most assume members are in the US as that's where a large majority of the members are located. Thus the products suggested are often geared towards that market. Other countries have other brands and so on that are more popular that we never see here in the States.


    As far as a "hobby" machine, I can understand the why behind that as well. It's sad though that much of the stuff marketed towards the hobby market is often made to satisfy a price point alone. While it used to be that quality was "reduced" in home owner grade tools and so on, today it seems like many times quality is thrown out the window to gain a super low price. I guess they expect that the average home user won't know the difference, and probably will never use it enough to have issues. Unfortunately with delicate high voltage electronics, all it takes is one part failure to destroy the whole thing. My cheap table saw may not cut as straight and true as my good commercial saw, but sloppy QC on parts usually won't cause catastrophic failure.


    Best suggestion if you want to go with a low priced machine besides buying the support behind the product, should it fail, is to stick with things that do only one job. Many times these are copies of older fairly well proven designs that have been reversed engineered with just enough changes to get around patent laws. Chances are that they usually will work even if for how long is unknown. The simpler the product, the less chance there is that you will suffer a failure.

    Good luck.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  20. #20

    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    @DSW
    Thank you I agree with you. Breaking my own rules brought me to this situation.
    Hope it will be resolved somehow and in any case let money be our biggest problem.
    I will update with the results.
    I do have a technical question -
    In order for that plasma to work an electric arc must be created to hit the air. In order for that to happen a circuit must be closed so the arc will form. As I investigated the tool I can see that the torch is one side of the circuit and the material grounded is the other side.
    However as I looked at the torch parts I can see that the out most tip - the visible part - is insulated from the other internal torch parts that are electrically connected to the port of the machine.
    Bringing the tip to the material it looks like the arc has two gaps to close one in the torch itself and the other between the torch tip and the material. It doesn't make any sense to me. Either something is wrong with the torch or with my understanding.
    Can you relayed to that?
    Thanks

    Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by ophirbb; 11-30-2013 at 02:02 PM.

  21. #21
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Two types of plasma torches. First no moving parts, electrode and nozzle(tip) are fixed.
    Second type, either the electrode or the nozzle move. They short together then pull apart to make the starting spark. The first type needs a HF starting circuit, either HF spark gap or CD pulse. Makes a low power high voltage spark to start the plasma. Nozzle may or may not be electrically connected. The HF only pilot start systems do not have a visible arc when fired in the air. must be down near what your cutting for the plasma arc to fire, metal need a clean area to start cutting. Next we add a true pilot arc. Torch fires in the air and will start cutting through paint and rust. Nozzle is connected to work through a resister and most unit have a pilot arc contactor that drops out after cut starts. There is one moving nozzle torch that will not fire in the air. needs to be tapped on what your are cutting to cause the torch to fire.
    Just a few basics to help identify what type of plasma system and torch you have.

  22. #22

    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    @ccawqc
    Thanks for the detailed description.
    From what you describe I guess I have the no moving parts torch. Still I can not figure out how the spark will be geneated as the tip is insulated from the parts that are connected to the port by means of a ceramic ring that has some holes in it. It is described in the so called user manual, as a swirll ring but it is ceramic and thus creates an insulation between the tip and the inner metal parts.
    Even if I touch the cutting material with the tip, there is an inner gap to be jumped by the spark and then if I lift the torch from the material then there are aain wo gaps to jump.
    However - assuming the wiring and all are OK - from what you write, I guess the problem lies in the HF(High Frequency?) / CD(?) pulse circuit not starting the initial arc.
    I made one test where I took a wire and connected it to the torch output then operarted the machine and touched the surface of the matel with it and there was an arc.
    Thanks again
    Ophir
    Last edited by ophirbb; 12-01-2013 at 01:44 AM.

  23. #23
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    If you machine has a pilot arc system. The retaining cap bridges the swirl ring.
    If it has a HF start only, the Tip/nozzle may not be connected to anything.
    Post a picture of your torch head, consumables removed and laid beside it.
    Also see if you can get a picture of how the torch connects to the plasma unit.

  24. #24

    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    Quote Originally Posted by ccawgc View Post
    If you machine has a pilot arc system. The retaining cap bridges the swirl ring.
    If it has a HF start only, the Tip/nozzle may not be connected to anything.
    Post a picture of your torch head, consumables removed and laid beside it.
    Also see if you can get a picture of how the torch connects to the plasma unit.
    Thanks for the reply.
    I'm returning it and will buy something with higher quality.
    Might have some usage questions when I get it.
    Thanks

    Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

  25. #25
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    Re: Dead 3 in 1 Plasma/tig/mma Accurate Tools atpw520

    you can pm me with any direct questions.

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