Need a new tig, inverter or not?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    23

    Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    I have an miller 180 that has been a great machine but I am starting to need a bigger machine. I was thinking about a 250dx but it is such a big heavy machine I was thinking of
    an inverter tig. It there any advantage with an inverter over transformer other than the weight and size? Also what are some other tigs that are inverter that are quality. The miller is serious money! Thanks

    Eric
    1995 supra 6-speed. 9.91 @148 mph on e85

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    16,011

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    On the Dynasty's you can adjust the hertz which changes the arc. I didn't have an instructor in my tig class that was up on all the fancy function of the new Dynasty 300's the school had just picked up, but it's supposed to help with welds on alum. There should be several other advanced functions on those machines also that I forget now.

    The inverters also use less power to get the same amp output, so they are easier on the power bill.


    I hate to say it, but when you want a higher amp machine like it sounds you do, good machines are ALL serious money. Red, Blue, whatever, at this level they don't really make an "economy" model. At best you give up advanced functions to save a small bit.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Toledo
    Posts
    44

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    Less power consumption is the big advantage, smaller footprint, and variable AC frequency. Not sure if all of the manufactures have the variable frequency with their TIG inverters though?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Upper Peninsula, MI
    Posts
    56

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    Hi,

    I'm certainly no expert, but I believe with the inverter machines you get a lot more features as far as arc shaping for AC welding. Also I think the power requirements are quite a bit less.

    I bought a Sync200 a little while back and now I wish I would have went for the Dynasty200 or even the TA185.
    Thermal Arc Fabricator 281
    Miller 350P
    Miller Syncrowave 200
    Lincoln ProCut-55
    Jackson NexGen

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ca, USA
    Posts
    5,241

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    If you want a 300-class full-featured quality name brand inverter tig at a lower price than the Dynasty 350, the Thermal Arc 300 ACDC is a very good machine.

    I will probly upgrade my TA185 to a TA300 at some point. I had considered the 300 when I bought my 185 but I didn't want to spend the extra money at the time. I should have just bought the 300 then and saved money in the long run only buying the machine once. I could have saved up and afforded the 300, had I truely wanted to. Oh well, I've had 3 or 4 years of use out of the 185 so far and I'm still very happy with it.

    I would like to have a Dynasty 350, but I don't see myself spending $6000 for just the power supply or $8000 for the whole rig. The TA300 last time I checked was about $2000 less than the Dynasty, if I remember right. I'm very happy with all aspects of my TA185, just wish it had more output. The TA300 fits that requirement perfectly. I don't need any more features than I have now, as it is I don't use half of them and the ones I do use work fine for me.

    TA 300 ACDC (complete rig)

    TA 300 ACDC (power supply only)



    Dynasty 350 (all)
    Last edited by DesertRider33; 12-17-2009 at 10:55 AM.
    MM350P/Python/Q300
    MM175/Q300
    DialarcHF

    HTP MIG200
    PowCon300SM

    Hypertherm380
    ThermalArc185
    Purox oa
    F350CrewCab4x4
    LoadNGo utilitybed
    Bobcat250
    XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic
    Suitcase12RC/Q300
    Suitcase8RC/Q400
    Passport/Q300

    Smith op

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ca, USA
    Posts
    5,241

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    I just looked up the going prices on TA300 and Dynasty 350.

    BR Welding Supplies has the TA300 complete kit for $5300. I couldn't find a price on just the power supply by itself.

    TA300 Kit

    Cyberweld has the Dynasty 350 for $7500 for the complete kit or $5500 for the power supply by itself.

    http://store.cyberweld.com/mitigwedy3501.html Dynasty 350 complete kit

    http://store.cyberweld.com/mitigwedy350.html Dynasty 350 power unit only
    MM350P/Python/Q300
    MM175/Q300
    DialarcHF

    HTP MIG200
    PowCon300SM

    Hypertherm380
    ThermalArc185
    Purox oa
    F350CrewCab4x4
    LoadNGo utilitybed
    Bobcat250
    XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic
    Suitcase12RC/Q300
    Suitcase8RC/Q400
    Passport/Q300

    Smith op

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    5,318

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    I couldn't get yer Links to open Desert- the 1st ones.

    Here is the Spec sheet for the 300

    http://www.thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads...8_84-2647C.pdf
    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.com/
    MM252
    MM211
    Passport Plus & Spool gun
    Lincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)
    Miller 125c Plasma 120v
    SO 2020 bender
    Beer in the fridge

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    5,318

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.com/
    MM252
    MM211
    Passport Plus & Spool gun
    Lincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)
    Miller 125c Plasma 120v
    SO 2020 bender
    Beer in the fridge

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    80

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    I own a Thermal Arc 300 GTSW. I was fortunate enough that they guy I worked for, before going out on my own, was willing to part with it. He bought it from a local weld supply. It was a floor/demo unit. When he sold the building, he gave most the equipment to the new owner and kept the TIG for his garage. I was content with my Miller TB 250G with the add on Hi freq unit until everything was stolen (trying to not get long winded here). My former boss offered up his TIG to me for $1350. I jumped on it. I had gotten so used to using the portable rig that I was amazed at how I forgotten about the ease of the Thermal Arc. It was like going from a Yugo to a Caddy.

    So there i my testimony.
    Bill Lambert
    Argon Welding
    ABQ NM


    Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Lake Of The Ozarks MO
    Posts
    232

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    There is nothing wrong with a good quality transformer unit like a syncrowave or equivalent.
    There is less room for error with one of these machines. And the are generally bulletproof because they are based on old school technology and now have the benefits of newer more advanced cicuitry. They can be very large and heavy.
    An inverter is generally much smaller and lighter and use less power as was before mentioned. They also tend to have a lower duty cycle. They have so much room for adjustment that you can get yourself out in "left field".
    Because of the 50/50 balance and 60hz baseline the transformer machines make a decent looking weld without much prep because the cleaning is so much greater. They also leave a fairly wide etching along the weld bead.
    If you take the time and effort to clean your parts and filler correctly then you can tune your inverter machines to make much nicer looking beads with less effort and reduce the etching zone to the width of the weld itself or just barely bigger.
    The most cool thing about the Miller Dynasty 200 and the Lincoln V-205t is you can carry them into a place and run off of 115v or 230v.
    Either machine is a fine stick welder but once again the luxury of being able to pack the inverter into a place and have adustable dig etc. on 115v is just very hard to beat.
    With all that I will say I am on my second Dynasty 200DX and those machines are incredible. I have only had one time that I hit the heat cycle and had the machine kick off and it was over 100 degrees that day and no breeze. I was running higher amp tig non stop for several minutes on aluminum. That was over 2 years ago and hasn't happened since.
    Esab also has a small inverter tig that is I believe a 225 amp AC/DC unit, but runs on 230v only not 115v. It is small and light tho and looks quite promising to me. I haven't heard a word one way or the other about it yet from someone who has used or owned one.
    Miller Dynasty 700
    Miller 350P
    Bobcat 225 NT
    Dynasty 200 DX
    30-A spoolgun
    Spectrum 300

    Enuff power and hand tools to fix or create one of anything but mass produce nothing!!!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    175

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    FusionKing:
    Sounds like you're the fellow I need to hear from......
    I am weighing which welder to aquire. I have basicly two "baskets" to put the
    candidates into.
    1, a transformer machine like the red square wave, or precision tig,
    or syncrowave 200 or 250.
    OR:
    2: the dynasty 200 with pulser or the lincoln invertec 210t.

    I am not under time restraints when welding so I think the lower duty cycle should
    not be an issue. I am mostly concerned with features as they impact performance.
    I learned in a big red square wave.

    I notice I see very few Red precision Tig machines used. The one review I read for
    them the poster said he was disappointed with the arc quality. Do you know how
    the precision tig compares to the square wave or syncrowave ? Is there something
    about the precision tig that makes them unpopular ?

    And finaly , it appears that the dynasty/invertec would be better in every way in terms
    of options +features than transformers. Would you agree with this since you have
    had TWO dynastys ???????????

    Love to hear your feedback !!!!!!

    Tim

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    southwest
    Posts
    81

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    Im hard core lincoln but the therm machines are awsome... perfect arc.
    Air vantage 500 on the 08' KW
    harris torches
    l25 pro suitcase
    comletely restored 1969 SA200 redface
    on my 08' duramax
    PIMPN AINT EASY

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    172

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    I just picked up a used ESAB 252 transformer type. 2 things I like so far about it so far vs inverter 1 Cheap 2 I will be able to leave it out and nobody is going to pick it up and walk away with it,,, "heavy"

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC (formerly Cape Breton)
    Posts
    515

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    Echoing what Jim said.... one of the things that sold me on the Syncrowave over the Dynasty (in addition to the price) was the inherent theft-prevention. It's easy to walk away with a briefcase, not so easy to do that with a small piano.
    Lincoln AC225 & MigPak 140, Lincoln Magnum SpoolGun, Miller Spectrum 375-X Plasma, Syncrowave 200 TIG, Millermatic 252 MIG, Miller Digital Elite, General 7x12" horiz/vert bandsaw, 3' box/pan brake, 20 ton press, milling machine, 12x28 lathe, etc.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    23

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    Thanks for all the input so far guys. I didnt realize the thermal machines were quality. Looking at them are the torches water cooled? If not I must be missing something.
    1995 supra 6-speed. 9.91 @148 mph on e85

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ca, USA
    Posts
    5,241

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    Both air and water cooled torches can be connected to a Thermal Arc tig, and just about any other kind of tig too. I have a CK-20 water cooled torch and Dynaflux Tig'r cooler on my TA185 that works great.

    When you choose the TA tig machines with the included tig kit, they come with an air cooled torch, foot pedal and leads. I bought just the bare power supply by itself and built my own tig kit using parts that I wanted from different companies. The SSC pedal I bought at Arc Zone was about half the cost of the stock TA pedal. The cooler I got from Arc Zone too and the torch and finger control I got straight from CK. Everything else (hoses, cables, reg, tank) I got at the local welding supply, or already had it around the shop.

    In the pics below, the big blue machine is a Dialarc HF, blue box in the back is a Miller cooler for the Dialarc, silver box on top of that is the Tig'r cooler for the TA185, which is the purple machine. The other blue machine is a mig feeder and not related to the rest of the machines in the pic.



    Last edited by DesertRider33; 12-21-2009 at 01:13 PM.
    MM350P/Python/Q300
    MM175/Q300
    DialarcHF

    HTP MIG200
    PowCon300SM

    Hypertherm380
    ThermalArc185
    Purox oa
    F350CrewCab4x4
    LoadNGo utilitybed
    Bobcat250
    XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic
    Suitcase12RC/Q300
    Suitcase8RC/Q400
    Passport/Q300

    Smith op

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    23

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    Thanks, I saw after I posted that that it had a air cooled torch and I figured you could use any external cooler. I had myself talked into the ta300 but I would need a cooler. Also it looks like the plug is the same for the remote so would my miller hand control work with it? Still seems like the 250dx with the cooler for 4200 ish would be my best bet.
    1995 supra 6-speed. 9.91 @148 mph on e85

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ca, USA
    Posts
    5,241

    Re: Need a new tig, inverter or not?

    I think the Miller remote controls with part number ending in -14 that fit most late model Millers will fit the TA300, but not the TA185. I have two SSC pedals, one for my TA185 and one for my XMT, and they do not interchange with eachother. You can contact SSC and ask them, they will know for sure if the Miller 14 remotes will connect to a TA300. Or contact Arc Zone.

    www.ssccontrols.com
    www.arc-zone.com

    As for Sync 250DX versus TA300, that all depends on if you want an inverter or transformer and how much output you need. If you have the juice available to run it and the space to keep it and dont need the portability, the Sync will be cheaper to buy. If you have limited power available, or limited space or need to take the machine somewhere, the TA300 is the obvious choice.
    MM350P/Python/Q300
    MM175/Q300
    DialarcHF

    HTP MIG200
    PowCon300SM

    Hypertherm380
    ThermalArc185
    Purox oa
    F350CrewCab4x4
    LoadNGo utilitybed
    Bobcat250
    XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic
    Suitcase12RC/Q300
    Suitcase8RC/Q400
    Passport/Q300

    Smith op

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