old lincoln bullet welders
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  1. #1
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    Mar 2009
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    calgary alberta canada
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    old lincoln bullet welders

    hey guys hows every one, i have been welding for some time now and was wondering if you can take one of those old Lincoln or Hobart bullet welders that run on 3 phase power and set up some kind of gas or diesel engine to run them ,,, any help would be greatly appreciated
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    brentc

  2. #2
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    Nov 2006
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    Good idea, Brent7018

    That would make a super welder, if you have the means to build it.
    There have been a few shop-built engine drives posted here. Including some built as you described.

    Maybe dig around a bit with the search function.

    Good Luck

  3. #3
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    Feb 2010
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    columbia sc
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    holy crap!... i love those things... it's the first "real" machine i ever used.. so good, that 20-some years later, they still hold a place in my heart.. lol.. and nothin about work is in there.. lol..lol..lol........... oh.. the only machine better is the Q-arc wisper-weld..
    if you're not livin on the edge, you're takin up too much room..

  4. #4
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    Hobart used to publlish booklets that explained how to build your own gas drive. I have several of them around here somewhere.

  5. #5
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    Georgetown, Texas
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    There is a guy in Lampasas, Texas that has one under the bed of his truck and runs on a PTO from his truck engine. It's cool that his machine doesn't take up any bed space. Leads come out the back and contriols are inside of a too; bin. Really a neat set up.

  6. #6
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    Jul 2008
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    There are several cnsiderations involved.

    First, you'll need sufficient horsepower, and a way to couple that power to the machine.
    You also need to maintain the direction of rotation of the generator, there is no way to drive one of these generators backwards and get either life or regulated output.
    Also, there is no way in hell the bearings in these machines will survive being driven with a belt!

    Once you've figured that out, you're pretty much home free.

    I suggest going with a Hobart Bros machine rather than a Lincoln. Hobart Bros produced many machines under government contract to be PTO driven, and they are very similar to the Hobart Bros machine pictured. The Hobart Bros generator can be driven from the PTO of a CJ 3 Jeep, and mounted in the back of the Jeep. This was done for the Army Corps of Engineers.

    NOTE: Hobart Bros is not the current crop of crap in white paint produced by IndoChina Thug Works sold in boxes with American Flags onthe box.

  7. #7
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    Mar 2009
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    calgary alberta canada
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    thanks guys, i always thought that the old 3 phase welders were basically the same generator as the engine drives just set up with electric drives,, never did think about the bearings being not up to the side pull of a belt,,, i have an old 48 Lincoln stubby that i use on my mobile rig it welds just fantastic and i love it,, now these old Lincoln and Hobart electric drives are getn stupid cheap around here like a hundred bucks for a 200 or 300 amp machine , just seems to me that anyone maybe startn out or just to have a cheap but sturdy welder around could throw an engine on it some how and ,, good to go lol . I like to do things on the cheap if it dosen't effect quality
    brentc

  8. #8
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    The Lincoln bearings seem substantial, and they can be lubricated. Bearing trouble was rare when used as-built. Lincoln's bearings appear to be at least as large as the bearings seen in a typical large electric motor, when used with belt drives.

    Lincoln also built the same basic generator/welder in belt-drive models. Maybe you have the inclination to search Lincoln's database and compare bearing part numbers of the various drive configurations?

    Old Fart - Does something in particular make you suspicious of bearing capacity?
    Like most industrial stuff built in that era, I wonder if the bearings have plenty of extra capacity, and could easily take a side load?

    Good Luck

  9. #9
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    Jul 2008
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    Quote Originally Posted by denrep View Post

    Old Fart - Does something in particular make you suspicious of bearing capacity?
    Like most industrial stuff built in that era, I wonder if the bearings have plenty of extra capacity, and could easily take a side load?

    Good Luck
    Suspicious, hell NO, I know what a rotor & stator look like when they make contact with each other at speed, and it ain't one bit pretty.

    Company named Go-For made welders, compressors and trenchers for Jeeps, fandamntastic concept, and fun as all hell. Nothing like being able to back up a 200 amp machine 10 feet from the weld and shift the transferr case into neutral, hop out and start welding. They had 3 B width v belts driving the Hobart Bros welding head, and saved money onthe first generation machines by not installing an oversized bearing. Machine life to bearing failure was about 200 to 300 hours. Retrofit kits came out with a much different bearing and endbell, and the life went to thousands of hours.

    Engineer fellow who knew more than pencil pushing once explained to me the difference in bearing loading betwen a rotating shaft and a shaft with side load, and I got a whole lot smarter about building machines with hydraulic pumps. Side loading is either built into a machine or it isn't, and in the case of MG sets it isn't there because they will never encounter the stress.

    Bigger MG sets such as the Lincoln 400 amp can actually twist their shaft when they get slammed all day as in the case of start & stop ArcAir. I've seen the laminations break loose from the shaft on one in that service.

  10. #10
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    Aug 2006
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    OF you seem to know quite a bit about the old Hobart welding machines, did Hobart make a one out put on the AC generator regardless of what the builder tag says? The reason I ask is I have a GR 3156-S that has all the bells and whistels including 3 phase 240 on the AC side yet is only rated at 6 KW. Thru a progresion of it run a 200 amp wire feed on a job so the next job needs a 300 amp cv machine and that worked fine to the next one where I am running a 500 amp with 3/32" inner shield on 2" plate and yet not a whimper out of the machine. Matter of fact I had a bout of stupid one day and hooked my 600 amp Hobart motor drive to the generator and by holding the starter button briefley it also run that while I air arced with it. The machine was made in May of 1950 according to Hobart when they were still Hobart. Tough old machine and also welds stick with any of them.

  11. #11
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    I've never been up close & personal with a Hobart Bros machine that was an alternator, so I really can't say. In the era of 1950 Hobart Bros was definitely way out front in development of gas drives, and probably would have run a hell of a lot more machines out the door if they hadn't been so damn loyal to the 4 cylinder Jeep engines. Those engines were flat miserable to start in cold weather. I knew a fellow here who had the cooling on his truck engine and welder engine crosstied so the truck warmed the welder up on the way out in the morning, and the welder kept the cab toasty all day long, and his was one of the few Hobarts that wasn't a PITA to start.

    The bigger machines employed the Chrysler 6 flathead for years and delivered plenty of power and arc.

    In 50, small (for want of a better descriptor) alternators really didn't exist in any great number, but Hobart Bros well may have been building them for the standby power market. The problem with building an alternator based machine in 1950 would have been the rectifier, best I recall only Sylenium was available, and that really wasn't all that good.

    I've heard when Hobart Bros was bought by the IndoChina Thug Works the company held more designs and patents than Lincoln did, but I can't prove it. All that paperwork rventually wound up at Thermal Dynamics where the matriculated morons shoved it into the dumpster.

  12. #12
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    Sep 2007
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    Houston, Texas
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    Your best bet is to sell it for junk and start over. I will cost to much run off electricity (3 Ph) or set up to run off engine drive.
    JG
    SMAW,GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFC
    and Shielding Gases. There all here.


    :

  13. #13
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    Apr 2008
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    NW ON Canada
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    It would be a shame to scrap one of these welders. I have used a few different Lincoln and Hobart electric motor/generater welders at work on 575v 3 phase power and they are hands down the best performing and smoothest stick welders I've used. They are very good dc tig welders with scratch start as well. I love the Lincoln's with the different pointers for regular, over head and large dia rod current settings.
    Don't scrap em, sell them to someone or a company who can use them.
    Jason
    Lincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tig
    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52
    Miller Bluestar 2E
    Torchmate CNC table
    Ironworkers Local 720

    Owner/Operator Devlin Metal Works
    Custom CNC Plasma Cutting and Welding

  14. #14
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    Jul 2008
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    176

    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    Only 1 problem with rotarys, listening to them scream all day.

    Anybody who never ran one is definitely less for the lack of experience. Hell you can catch a nice nap between stick changes with a rotary.

  15. #15
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
    I've never been up close & personal with a Hobart Bros machine that was an alternator, so I really can't say. In the era of 1950 Hobart Bros was definitely way out front in development of gas drives, and probably would have run a hell of a lot more machines out the door if they hadn't been so damn loyal to the 4 cylinder Jeep engines. Those engines were flat miserable to start in cold weather. I knew a fellow here who had the cooling on his truck engine and welder engine crosstied so the truck warmed the welder up on the way out in the morning, and the welder kept the cab toasty all day long, and his was one of the few Hobarts that wasn't a PITA to start.

    The bigger machines employed the Chrysler 6 flathead for years and delivered plenty of power and arc.

    In 50, small (for want of a better descriptor) alternators really didn't exist in any great number, but Hobart Bros well may have been building them for the standby power market. The problem with building an alternator based machine in 1950 would have been the rectifier, best I recall only Sylenium was available, and that really wasn't all that good.

    I've heard when Hobart Bros was bought by the IndoChina Thug Works the company held more designs and patents than Lincoln did, but I can't prove it. All that paperwork rventually wound up at Thermal Dynamics where the matriculated morons shoved it into the dumpster.
    The Chrysler flat head is a tempremental engine to start in cold weather and on hot days after it has been run for a few hours then shut down. After 35 years of dealing with the Chrysler and thinking I know just what it takes to start it hot or cold, it up and changes the rules in the middle of the game. Just like an old plow horse cranky to get going but unstopable when it does.

  16. #16
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders


  17. #17
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    Quote Originally Posted by illenema View Post
    The going price for such machines is $50- to $100-

    Lars you just gotta look at the old machines like you look at a long term wife. Both got their own ways & temperment, and if you want to get along you go along. Lot to br said for not chucking rocks at wasp nests!

  18. #18
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
    The going price for such machines is $50- to $100-

    Lars you just gotta look at the old machines like you look at a long term wife. Both got their own ways & temperment, and if you want to get along you go along. Lot to br said for not chucking rocks at wasp nests!
    Yeah, I just try to go with the flow with both.

  19. #19
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    Mar 2009
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    calgary alberta canada
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    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    illenema real nice example , now im a little out of my field here but did the old three phase power help excite the welder or is this done throught the welders arc it self. i mean if the three phase only ran the unit all you would have to consentrate on is coupling the two pieces together generator to engine drive ??? just thoughts lol
    brentc

  20. #20
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    northern michigan
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    11

    Re: old lincoln bullet welders

    Here's a super deal, $3,000 less than actual value:

    http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/tls/1678463925.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
    The going price for such machines is $50- to $100-

    Lars you just gotta look at the old machines like you look at a long term wife. Both got their own ways & temperment, and if you want to get along you go along. Lot to br said for not chucking rocks at wasp nests!

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