Blacksmithing tools - Page 9
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  1. #201
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    1,774

    Re: Blacksmithing tools

    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnT View Post
    Those cast russian anvils used to be pretty good, from what I hear. The new ones suck balls, but it sounds like you got in early.

    No idea how they'd take to being welded on. If the whole thing is cast iron and not cast steel, that might be more trouble than it's worth. Still, it could be fun to try. I know I'd love to be able to weld up the edges on my Fisher anvil and have it like new again.
    I'm also skeptical that adding hard surfacing would improve the rebound... but that being said, I have yet to try it. If those chips on the edge of your Fisher anvil aren't too serious, there is another way to "fudge" the repair that I'll probably get lambasted for. I had a bad chip in my Peter Wright, but didn't have the equipment handy (ok... I got lazy...) to preheat 100 lbs of anvil, so I took the opposite approach of not heating it enough to cause damage. Any anvil sitting out in the sun is going to get hot to the touch, so my test was to stop any time the anvil got too hot to put my bare hand on. I used my mig and regular wire (you can get hard surfacing wire for the MIG, but it's expensive) and worked in small sections with plenty of (beer) time between welds. Yes, this will result in softer metal than the hard surfacing rod, but the truth is that some of these 100 yr old tool steels really weren't that hard anyway, which is why old anvils are so often marked up the way they are. Is this the recommended way? No. The advantage to doing it this way, is that the worst that can happen is your weld breaks out and you are back to the original repair anyway. The worst that can happen with arcing on hard surface rod without proper preheating is that you loosen the tool plate and ruin your anvil. I can bounce the hammer around on the face of my anvil, and there is almost no difference in rebound between the original plate and the repaired area. I think it's been about 4 yrs since I did this repair, and it's still as good as new. For an anvil with small chips, I would do it again in a heartbeat.
    F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
    230 amp Sears AC Stick
    Lincoln 180C MIG
    Victor Medalist 350 O/A

    Les

  2. #202
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    170

    Re: Blacksmithing tools

    Quote Originally Posted by whtbaron View Post
    For an anvil with small chips....
    Were I a better welder, I might give it a try. My fisher has chipping all around the perimeter of the face, with just a few inches that are relatively clean. Kinda gives the edge more of a sawtooth look than anything else!

    Welding on cast iron? That scares the snot out of me. I can barely weld on mild steel, so trying to do a decent job on a 300# cast iron anvil..... ugh!

    I like the simplicity of your technique and might try it on my 120# Wilkinson anvil that's in dire need of repair. I've already ground back all the bad spots and it's going to take a ton of fill to bring her back to life. Some 1/8" 7018 laid down in short beads -- I can probably do that with reasonable skill.

  3. #203
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    4,790

    Re: Blacksmithing tools

    I am not going give advice on the Fisher, but general cast iron welding needs significant preheat, like 800*, as well as post heat/slow cooling. We practiced on exhaust manifolds in school. Meanwhile, the article states that a cast iron anvil should receive 450* of preheat.
    I would shy away from 7018 myself, it has virtually no impact resistance, and deforms very easily. The advice they offer for attaching to cast iron is to use a layer of nickel rod first. I've heard that from members here many times.

    I double checked my rebound by the 10", ball bearing drop method, and it consistently rebounds 55 to 65% max, right at about 60%. By comparison, my quenched rail anvil rebounds at 70%.

    The postman just dropped of one box of Stoody 31 (2110) rods today, I am waiting on another box of 1105's from my lws.
    ~~~
    Last edited by tanglediver; 06-16-2018 at 07:03 PM.
    City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;
    "Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."
    Job 28:1,2

    Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV Bible

    Danny

  4. #204
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    170

    Re: Blacksmithing tools

    Quote Originally Posted by tanglediver View Post
    I would shy away from 7018 myself, it has virtually no impact resistance, and deforms very easily.
    If I remember correctly, and that's always problematic, the 7018 rod is good for build up where you need it. You still need to hard face over it, but it has a lot of the properties that make it similar to wrought iron and you can get a good bond between the two.

    On cast iron anvils, the caveat is that you have to use a high-nickel rod to butter the cast iron first, then you can use something like 7018 to build up on top of that and finish with your hard-face rod.

    I almost made a mistake and got abrasion-resistant HF rod rather than impact-resistant. That wouldn't have worked out well, though I wonder if there'd be any measurable difference in actual usage since it's going on an anvil.

    Since my little Wilkinson anvil is a wrought iron body and has some really bad areas that'll need a lot of build up, I thought to use the 7018 just to fill in the huge voids. Two passes of HF rod over that would be reasonably durable, I'd think. Though, if you know of a harder rod that'd better serve as an underlayment for the HF rod, I'd be glad to hear about it.

    I'm not a welder by any measure of the word. I can stick steel together, but the science of it escapes me and I'm always happy to defer to those who are better.

  5. #205
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    1,774

    Re: Blacksmithing tools

    Sorry... didn't realize the Fisher was all cast iron... I was assuming you'd be working with a tool steel plate on top, which is what I was working on.
    F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
    230 amp Sears AC Stick
    Lincoln 180C MIG
    Victor Medalist 350 O/A

    Les

  6. #206
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    4,790

    Re: Blacksmithing tools

    You would probably do fine with a base layer of 7018 in that role, wrought iron is also very soft. It's the tool steel top that gives it life.
    City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;
    "Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."
    Job 28:1,2

    Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV Bible

    Danny

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    170

    Re: Blacksmithing tools

    Quote Originally Posted by whtbaron View Post
    ...a tool steel plate on top, which is what I was working on.
    I don't believe those Russian anvils have a tool steel top on them. If I remember right, the anvils were cast steel, originally, and just not heat-treated that well. The later ones went to cast iron only, and suck balls as you'd imagine.

    Yours is old enough that it could be cast steel, or that "ductile" iron stuff. I guess a spark test is in order before you do any welding.

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