weldanpower 150
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Thread: weldanpower 150

  1. #1
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    weldanpower 150

    I recently had purchased an older Lincoln Weldanpower 150 with a Kohler engine. The engine runs great. As for output power, not so much. I have read about flashing and doing all kinds of other tricks with no such luck. I recently contacted Lincoln and this is what they told me. My machine has a circuit that flashes the main alternator each time the machine is started. On some machines, the exciter field could be flashed to restore residual magnetism to the poles but this machine will not maintain residual magnetism. It must be flashed from a DC power source each time it is started. The DC power source used for this is a special coil inside the Kohler engine. I have searched Kohlers website and I couldn't find anything useful. I couldn't even find my engines model there. If anyone knows anything i would be greatly appreciated. Such as where this coil is located and where i can find a replacement part.

  2. #2
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    Craig,
    Did the Lincoln guy direct you to the manuals section of their website and explain how to download the manual for your unit?

    If not, go here http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspx and enter the unit Code# in the box and click "Search". You can also download the parts break-down file(s) for it to have handy.

    In the manual you will find the electrical schematic for it that will help you to identify components and assist in troubleshooting any generator/welder problems.

    The Lincoln guy was right on as to how the unit initiates output power but first things to look at are the rotor slip rings and brushes. If the unit has been sitting idle for a long time, the slip rings are likely severely tarnished and not conducting well and/or the brushes may be stuck in their holders that tend to build up rust and keep the brushes from moving freely in them.

    Welcome to the forum.


    This is what dirty/tarnished slip rings look like that don't conduct.
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    This is what stuck brushes look like in their holders.
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    This is what acceptable slip rings look like.
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    The next thing to check is to make sure the flashing diode is good (not open or shorted). You'll find the flashing diode here:
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    Once you're sure the slip rings are clean, the brushes are free and the flashing diode is good you can fire it up and see if it makes power. If not, you can apply 12vdc (+) from a battery to the positive brush lead and 12vdc (-) to the negative brush lead momentarily (it will spark if the rotor windings are good) to "flash" the field to see if it wakes up.
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    Not sure if it will, but you can see if anything in this thread http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=30753 will help and let us know how you make out and we can go from there. If necessary I can direct you to the correct Kohler site to identify any parts needed for the engine. You'll need to confirm the engine numbers to be absolutely sure if it comes to that.
    Last edited by duaneb55; 08-31-2010 at 06:47 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    Thanks Duane for your quick response. I have checked the slip rings and brushes. The slip rings appear to be clean. I removed the brush assembly, and the brushes move freely and don't appear to be stuck. You can give your professional opinion about the slip rings.
    Photobucket
    Photobucket

    After I purchased the welder I did notice some issues with the wiring. I have very little electrical knowledge and the wiring diagrams in the manual make little sense to me! There were a couple wires that weren't connected, and want to make sure I have the right ones going to all the right places. I'm attaching pics of the condition of the wires when i purchased the machine.

    Photobucket
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    Photobucket

    Any help would be great.

  4. #4
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    Slip rings look fine but . . . MAN - where'd the base pan go?!

    It appears the switch and wire you are holding were added for a manual field flashing circuit from what looks to be a battery at the right edge of photo #4. The wire you're holding would connect to the battery (+) and with the switch "ON" would supply 12vdc to the rotor positive brush thru the flashing diode.

    Is the switch a momentary or maintained switch? Momentary would work better but a maintained switch would work OK too so long as the flashing diode didn't short out and you turned it "OFF" so the battery didn't run down with the unit not running off. Of course fixing it right would work best.

    If the flashing diode failed shorted (passing current in both directions) it would allow high voltage to backfeed from the field exciter circuit into the engine mag coil once the unit started producing power and fry it which has happened in the past. It wouldn't surprize me if that's what happened to this unit and a previous owner rigged up the manual exciter switch.

    Stand by for another post as I have to mark up one of your photos to better explain any corrective action.
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  5. #5
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    Thanks so much for your help. I know what you mean about the base pan. I plan on replacing it and restoring the welder to the shining beauty that it once was! Just want to get it running first. I'm going to try hooking the wire up to the battery tomorrow and see what happens. I acquired the machine from a family friend. When he purchased it it wasn't generating. He naturally assumed it was an engine problem and spent about $200 rebuilding the engine. It used to be a pull-start, but he also put a push button ignition on it. I'm quite thankful for that! He gave up on it and let it sit for about 2 years. I'm not sure which owner put the switch in, but I assumed it was aftermarket. The wires were too new and the nameplate was scuffed up around the switch. Here is a pic of the outside of the toggle if it helps at all.
    Photobucket

  6. #6
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    OK. The engine mag coil wires are obviously the "red" and "blue" arrows. From what I can see, to be correct the "blue" would connect to the "green" and the "red" connect to the "yellow" although it really wouldn't matter what the match up to the mag coil wires was.
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    The black wire (with no terminal end) would have connected to the battery (+) for the "manual field flash" circuit added by a previous owner as stated before.

    Do you have a multimeter (VOM)? Do you know how to check a diode and check for continuity of a circuit?


    Check the engine mag coil with a VOM as follows:
    1) check for continuity between both wires - should be yes.
    2) check for continuity between each wire and the engine block - should be no.
    If either of the above is not true, the coil is open or shorted and can be easily rewound by yourself with the appropriate gauge magnet wire (insulated) from Radio Shack or the like.

    Using the VOM, check the flashing diode by testing for continuity in one direction and no continuity in the other. If you get continuity in both directions (shorted) or none in either (open), the diode is bad.

    And then there's the full wave bridge rectifier (square device below the flashing diode) but we'll cross that "bridge" once you check the other items above and report back with your findings.
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  7. #7
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    FYI, the Code# you need is at the yellow arrow to download the manual at the link I posted earlier.
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  8. #8
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    Thanks again. The wire you marked yellow is one of the two wires coming from the switch. When i bought the machine the yellow wire was loosely connected to the bottom of the diode. i figured the blue and green went together. That left me with the lone red wire. Should there be 1 or 2 wires connected to the diode?

  9. #9
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    Correct, but it would normally be connected to one of the engine mag coil wires if wired correctly and everything working properly.

    Two wires to the flashing diode - one from the mag coil (to the diode anode) and one to the (+) brush (from the diode cathode).
    Last edited by duaneb55; 09-01-2010 at 12:20 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    so far today i hooked the wires up the way you said. nothing happened. i messed around some more and put the yellow arrow wire back on the diode. i'm getting some sparks out of the lead and enough power to hear a drill humming but not enough to turn the bit. I'm going to let it run for a while to see if it builds up anymore power. also going to pick up a meter so i can test the output. so far so good. wish me luck.

  11. #11
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    I'm not surprised as I suspect the mag coil is bad which would explain why a/the previous owner installed the manual exciter circuit.

    If you flash the field (momentarily apply 12vdc (+) and (-) to the appropriate brushes (post #2, photo #5), it'll probably come alive.
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  12. #12
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    i flashed the field momentarily and nothing happened, but when i held it on the brushes it got more power. enough this time to turn a drill. still not enough power though to turn it full steam

  13. #13
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    Sorry to be so long getting back to you. Just got home from dinner out with my bride for our 31st.

    Forgot to ask before but at what speed are you running the engine at? Should be 3700rpm for both weld and power output.

    Remember that full wave rectifier bridge I mentioned earlier? It's time to check it out now along with seeing if you're getting exciter windings output. It sounds as if the only exciter voltage is that from your flashing power which is too low for full alternator output.

    To test for exciter output, check for AC voltage at the "green arrow" wires after removing them from the full wave bridge rectifier (blue arrow). You'll have to apply the continuous 12vdc to the brush leads again to see the exciter windings are producing power. I don't know the exact voltage that would be produced with a 12vdc flashing voltage but that's not critical at this point and should be checked it at 3700rpm engine speed.
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    If you have exciter output voltage, you'll need to check the full wave bridge rectifier to make sure it's functioning properly. If you need information on testing it, PM me an email address and I'll send it to you.
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  14. #14
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    Its quite alright. I took it easy last night and gave the welder a break. Congrats on your anniversary!

    When i tested the diode yesterday the meter was say that both ends were open. I'm pretty sure I tested it right. So I ordered a new diode today. Hopefully this is the problem. I'm heading out soon to check the wires that are coming out of the rectifier. So what you said is after i unhook the two wires out of the rectifier, apply power to the brush leads. If there is voltage in those two wires with the green arrows then the rectifier is most likely bad?
    As for the rpms I'm not sure how high its running. Its is running pretty hard when revved up. Theres no tach on it and the only way I can test it is to get a digital tach meter. I'd hook one up buts that's a whole other world to me to do that. I figured while I'm waiting for the diode I'm going to start the restoration on it. Hopefully it all works out. Thanks again.

  15. #15
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    So you're saying you got no reading on the multimeter with the test leads either way on the diode?

    And the multimeter was set to "diode" or "ohm"?

    If so, the diode is open and would prevent the engine mag coil output from exciting the field to kick things off - assuming the engine mag is putting out its normal 1-1/2 to 4 volts. Have you been able to check the mag coil out yet with your multimeter as outlined in post #6?

    If you have a Home Depot or Lowes near by, this is the device I use for setting generator and welder/generator speeds.
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    Adjust the engine speed until you get the proper/desired frequency (61-62Hz no load) and you're good to go. You can also monitor the frequency with the unit under a full load to make sure it doesn't drop below 58Hz with 59.9Hz being the baseline ideal.

    As for the bridge rectifier, it looks as if it may have been replaced - or at least cleaned up - so no telling what you'll find. However, the reason for testing it is if it's bad and you are in fact getting exciter winding output, it'll never get to the brushes to take over from the flashing voltage coming from the engine mag coil thru the diode (or your 12vdc flashing voltage) and as such you won't get proper output voltage from the alternator and AC outets.
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  16. #16

    Re: weldanpower 150

    My son recently purchased an old weldanpower 150, it has very little compression, how do you separate the engine from the generator?
    Thanks
    Oscar

  17. #17
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    Look here http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=30753&page=5 at post #123. The front panel, center bolt thru the rotor and fan have to be removed first.
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  18. #18

    Re: weldanpower 150

    Just getting back to working on the welder, Thanks, for the heads up on the bolt through the generator. Is the crankshaft keyed? Being a tappered shaft I would expect a snug fit, anything special required to separate this?
    Thanks again
    Oscar

  19. #19
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    Re: weldanpower 150

    No key and just use a decent sized hammer. No love tap, tap, tap here. A couple solid sharp blows with a 3-4# hammer on the flat end of the round bar stock and it should pop right off. Keep the beveled end seated against the crank thru the rotor before striking.

    Make sure to remove the brushes and holders first or you'll run the risk of breaking them. And of course, remove the four bolts holding the alternator frame to the engine first as well.
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  20. #20

    Re: weldanpower 150

    Thanks, I will get back on it this weekend
    Oscar

  21. #21

    Re: weldanpower 150

    well fortunately i found you guys, unfortunately however, i needed to find you.
    I have been graced with a weld "an" power 150 with the Kohler block. but i have also been graced with the issues that come with a welder that sat for a spell. engine work aside, i have NOT received any power. now i have not tried a manual flashing yet, but will tomorrow. Duane, you seem to be on the curve with these machines and that is the reason i came around to this forum.
    - these monsters aside from being heavier than my ex wife, are a treat to have, and i really dont want to see it leave unless its on my trailer to the next job.

    any input is very appreciated and I will say it is my pleasure to be here,

    GDM

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