I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    161

    I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    Today I was doing some welding for a friend (nothing structural life threatening) and was really struggling with both my vertical welds and my overhead welds and was hoping I could pick up some pointers. Machine is a 225A AC Lincoln buzz box.

    I have done both before on 1/4" material with 1/8" 7018AC at 135A and not really had too much difficulties. But today was a whole different story.

    The material to being welded was 1.25x1.25x.065" square tubing. For the vertical weld it was oriented like this ||=

    At first I tried to use the 7018 @ 120A and it just burned through regardless of if I tried to weld from the bottom up or from the top down. So I switched to 3/32" 6013 at 90A. It stopped burning through but it seemed like the arc was really sporatic (strange popping noise pop.... wait a second pop pop pop then quiet then pop again). It was hard to keep it going regardless of the arc length I was trying to hold. And even when I did get the arc going well the puddle looked like it was drooping and the weld had a very high crown on it. I think the reason that I was having a hard time keeping the arc going was that the slag was flowing downward back onto the electrode (it got stuck due to this several times). At this point I was welding from the top down and had the stick perpendicular to the way of travel. Should I have angled the electrode up to try and keep the slag pushed away?

    For the overhead welds, I was welding the same material 1.25x1.25x.065" sqr tubing and was now trying to weld the bottom joint of the the same ||= orientation. For these welds I went with the 3/32 6013 at 105A. The problem I had here again was the drooping or sagging of the weld. I was not able to get it pushed up into the joint so that it looked good. The weld was "sound" (I stomped my foot on it pretty hard and it did not give) but it looked like total crap. For this weld I had the rod at a 45 to the to pieces and tilted in a 10-15deg angle in the direction of travel. What should I have down differently? I tried traveling along washing the puddle from side to side pausing for a half second on each of the sides in a C type pattern. I know the weld was not cold, was it too hot, it just felt like I could not find the sweet spot in amperage to get a good looking proper weld? Sorry I dont have any pictures of the welds.

    Thanks,

    Garrett

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    15,337

    Re: I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    I don't have my chart for rod amps in front of me, and I don't run them enough to remember what my settings usually are. However often it's better to run hotter than colder when running these beads. The key is to move faster while watching the puddle. If you are set colder and dawdle, you will actually put more heat into the puddle than if you cranked it up and ran faster. that realization made all the difference when I was learning vert and overhead.
    .



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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    161

    Re: I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    DSW: Thanks for the info. I will def try to practice that.

    Is 1/8" rod too thick for this thin of material? When I start 7018AC i usually strike the arc about 3/4" before where I want to start to weld then move back to where I want to start and let the puddle form. But by the time the puddle had just formed I had blown through horizontal (cut) piece already even through I was aiming the electrode 90% towards the piece which was vertical.

    What is a good way most people practice overhead? Maybe take a piece of angle and clamp it horizontal overhead are repeat passes till I fill in the channel? Next week I am def going to practice this with 6013 and 7014 and will post pics to see what you guys think.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ca, USA
    Posts
    5,241

    Re: I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    1/8" 7018 is too thick for 16ga tube. Your switch to 3/32 6013 was a better choice. 1/16" 6013 would have been better, if available. 6011 would have been a good choice too.

    Your procedure for the overhead should have been sucessful, though 105 amps sounds a bit hot to me. My guess is your trouble with the overhead drooping out was the tube was already heated up from trying to run the verticals.

    Hold a tight arc length. If your arc length is too long, it heats up the metal too much and can't control the puddle as well either.

    7018 is best run vert-up, and on thicker metal. To run vert-down on thinner metal, use 6011, the slag is less and puddle faster freezing for going down.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    Re: I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    Thanks for the tips Glen. I did have some 1/16 7018 and 6013 in the truck and spaced out and didn't even think of trying them.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    144

    Re: I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    For the overheads: stick with the (3/32) 2.5mm 6013's, personally I'd put them on electrode neg for this thickness of material, turn your amps down to about 90 ish, stick with the 'c' pattern if you like , but lose the trailing angle, have the stick going in perpendicular and bury the arc in the weld pool. If you dont bury the arc it'll instantly get too hot and start to sag/drip. The whole trick is to push and keep pushing the rod into the corner/joint as much as you can.

    For the verts: I wouldn't even both trying to weld material this thin uphill unless I was just doing a series of spots. Stick with the 2.5mm 6013 crank the amps up to about 100 and run 'em downhill with a slight weave, and you'll need to move pretty fast so that they dont stick/trap slag.

    Hope this helps!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NW ON Canada
    Posts
    1,489

    Re: I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    A DC welding machine would make things easier for welding out of position as well. More so than an AC machine anyway.
    Jason
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by ggarner View Post
    Today I was doing some welding for a friend (nothing structural life threatening) and was really struggling with both my vertical welds and my overhead welds and was hoping I could pick up some pointers. Machine is a 225A AC Lincoln buzz box.

    I have done both before on 1/4" material with 1/8" 7018AC at 135A and not really had too much difficulties. But today was a whole different story.

    The material to being welded was 1.25x1.25x.065" square tubing. For the vertical weld it was oriented like this ||=

    At first I tried to use the 7018 @ 120A and it just burned through regardless of if I tried to weld from the bottom up or from the top down. So I switched to 3/32" 6013 at 90A. It stopped burning through but it seemed like the arc was really sporatic (strange popping noise pop.... wait a second pop pop pop then quiet then pop again). It was hard to keep it going regardless of the arc length I was trying to hold. And even when I did get the arc going well the puddle looked like it was drooping and the weld had a very high crown on it. I think the reason that I was having a hard time keeping the arc going was that the slag was flowing downward back onto the electrode (it got stuck due to this several times). At this point I was welding from the top down and had the stick perpendicular to the way of travel. Should I have angled the electrode up to try and keep the slag pushed away?

    For the overhead welds, I was welding the same material 1.25x1.25x.065" sqr tubing and was now trying to weld the bottom joint of the the same ||= orientation. For these welds I went with the 3/32 6013 at 105A. The problem I had here again was the drooping or sagging of the weld. I was not able to get it pushed up into the joint so that it looked good. The weld was "sound" (I stomped my foot on it pretty hard and it did not give) but it looked like total crap. For this weld I had the rod at a 45 to the to pieces and tilted in a 10-15deg angle in the direction of travel. What should I have down differently? I tried traveling along washing the puddle from side to side pausing for a half second on each of the sides in a C type pattern. I know the weld was not cold, was it too hot, it just felt like I could not find the sweet spot in amperage to get a good looking proper weld? Sorry I dont have any pictures of the welds.

    Thanks,

    Garrett

    I like 7014 for ornamental stuff.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    4,399

    Re: I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by Baila La Pinza View Post
    For the overheads: stick with the (3/32) 2.5mm 6013's, personally I'd put them on electrode neg for this thickness of material, turn your amps down to about 90 ish, stick with the 'c' pattern if you like , but lose the trailing angle, have the stick going in perpendicular and bury the arc in the weld pool. If you dont bury the arc it'll instantly get too hot and start to sag/drip. The whole trick is to push and keep pushing the rod into the corner/joint as much as you can.

    For the verts: I wouldn't even both trying to weld material this thin uphill unless I was just doing a series of spots. Stick with the 2.5mm 6013 crank the amps up to about 100 and run 'em downhill with a slight weave, and you'll need to move pretty fast so that they dont stick/trap slag.

    Hope this helps!
    Nice.
    City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;
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    Danny

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    21

    Re: I need some help with my vertical and overhead stick welding

    90 amps is all u need with the 3/32 6013 run vertical down on that thin of material and have a short arc with overhead, u can just about run them on the steel, they hardly ever stick to the plate when doing overhead

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