compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase
RSS | Subscribe | Contact Us | Advertise | About Us
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Goochland, Va.
    Posts
    601

    compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    I called my LWS this morning to compare what I am paying for my rental oxy/acet tanks against purchase and I have a few interesting observations:

    I currently rent a 282cf oxygen and a 130-180cf (med) acet tank that I use for OA welding and cutting. I pay $62/year for each tank.

    Arcet doesn't sell tanks over 80cf oxygen, 55cf acetylene which rules out buying tanks from them for cutting anything thicker than foil - have to stick to their lease to get the big ones

    Northern Tool/Gas Pony sells tanks similar to what I have
    125cf Oxygen $289
    145cf Acet $349

    This means that I would recover my cost in 5 years if I bought the Gas Pony tanks, seems like a long time to me and I would have a smaller Oxygen tank.

    Refill costs are about the same, I can refill the big Arcet rentals for $35 oxygen, $74 acet. Same price to refill the smaller Gas Pony tanks through Northern Tool.

    The bottom line - the rental tanks from Arcet make more sense for me.
    Hobart LX235
    Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)
    Bobcat 773
    F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailer
    Outdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    709

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    That seems like a good rental price.

    Last time I checked with the LWS i think it was $200 / 3 years. At least in my mind it was about 3 years to break even.

    The big advantage with renting is they deliver the big bottles - they handle all the hydro etc.

    The disadvantage with renting is: the bottles are bigger, if you need your welder to be portable - maybe move over something gravel driveway. And of course, over the long run you might be paying more.

    For me, from a hobby point of view, I have some O/A bottles that have been sitting for the better part of 5 years. On the flip side, I go through enough argon to make it worth while. I have 5 bottles of gas that I own. All 80s (the biggest I could easily buy _AND_ easily exchange) 2 Argon (because I always run out late at night), C10, C25, and O2. I will probably swap the C10 for another C25 and mix my own C10.
    Con Fuse!
    Miller Dynasty 350
    Millermatic 350P
    -Spoolmatic 30A

    Miller Multimatic 200
    Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3
    Miller Maxstar 200DX

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Goochland, Va.
    Posts
    601

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    I don't use a lot of gas, but I rely on OA for cutting, observing the 1/7 (or esp. the 1/10) draw limit makes a 55cf acet. tank useless.

    One nice thing about big tanks is I have fewer trips to the LWS. (I get my filler metal via the internet for OA and tractor supply for smaw electrodes).
    Hobart LX235
    Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)
    Bobcat 773
    F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailer
    Outdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    175

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    I've owned my own cylinders since the '80s and would never even consider renting. Why rent? Buy cylinders off craigslist (making sure no company names on the neck ring or stamped in), swap them when you need to, paying only for the gas, when you're done with them, sell them for what you paid or more. You only pay for the gas. To me paying rent on O/A cylinders is a sucker move. So is buying cylinders from the LWS. There are better ways ..

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    21

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    Same here, I bought used oxy/acet tanks off of craigslist which also came with smith regulators, a smith torch, and a cart. I paid $100 for the entire set-up. Find some used tanks with no LWS names stamped on them and save some cash.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    16,647

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmagpie View Post
    I've owned my own cylinders since the '80s and would never even consider renting. Why rent? Buy cylinders off craigslist (making sure no company names on the neck ring or stamped in), swap them when you need to, paying only for the gas, when you're done with them, sell them for what you paid or more. You only pay for the gas. To me paying rent on O/A cylinders is a sucker move. So is buying cylinders from the LWS. There are better ways ..
    Problem with this idea is if there's no one in your area that will swap the cylinders. None of the supply places near me will touch an owner cylinder larger than 150cf or so. That means the 282cf owner cylinders I have are useless for the most part ( they were bought for breathing air, and I can get that filled by a friend with a HP dive compressor). If I haul one of the others into my LWS, they won't touch them if they didn't come from them. 10 years ago that might not have been an issue while there were still a few independant places around that would fill on site, but they've all been bought up and are long gone. Your only option here is a lease/rental for larger cylinders.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,510

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    I agree with DSW; the rent/own choice can be dominated by national rules (US/Canada), changing times and policies of the local welding supply stores. In some areas a few independents may still exist and anything goes... all kinds of cylinder swaps, low gas prices and local fills. However, this is very local dependent.
    Here in Ottawa Canada, Linde (BOC), Praxair and AirLiquid are the only gas suppliers- having bought everyone else out. Their prices and policies are very similar - no owner-purchase tanks over 80cf oxygen or 65cf acetylene. None of the three local gas suppliers fill cylinders, they just swap'em out.

    You might also want to consider who will be around in a few years to fill the large, owner cylinders.
    e.g. What may be possible today might not be possible in 5 years.
    Rick V

    1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR
    3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel
    1 Lincoln MIG PAK 15
    1 Oxy-Acet

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,427

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    i pay $89 per tank a year for rent on my 3 tanks..ox acet and argon.. my only option is to buy tanks and drive to god knows where to swap them out.. my local lws wont touch anything they dont rent....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hellinois
    Posts
    4,843

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    The whole cylinder rental thing is a joke! I own my own big cylinders and I get them exchanged at a local family run supplier. I can't see any reason to charge rent. Amerigas, will give you a 100# propane cylinder for an $85.00 deposit and the cost of the fill. When, if ever, you have no use for it, you get your full deposit back. THAT, is fair. If the LWS' would charge a deposit, and heck, even an extra $25.00 once every five years per cylinder to cover hydro, it would be fair. But I will NOT pay rent for a cylinder. Heck, I have three K oxy's, one T 75/25 and one T 100% AR. That's about $300.00 a year in just rental. If the place I deal with closes, I will be forced to purchase smaller cylinders.
    "Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749
    "SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55
    "I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding
    "Stick-man"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    161

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    This looks like the appropriate place. I want to upgrade my O/A tanks. Right now, I have a set of smaller tanks. The Acetylene tank is a 40 CF tank. The Oxygen tank is about the same size. If my recollection is right, I think they said it was a "B" tank. I went through that in about a month.

    I am using it for cutting and gas welding equipment around my property and also for my metal shaping hobby. I would like to upgrade.

    Airgas told me they would take my small tanks, but not credit me for them (Yeah right). Tank rental was $75 ea per year plus fill ($45 for acetylene/ $20 for Oxygen). A independent welding shop told me they would give me two tanks, with a $50 deposit required for each tank, fill for acetylene was $50 and Oxygen $20 and no annual rental fee. they suggested either selling the small tanks or keeping as spares.

    The independent company sounds like the way to go (As a scuba diver, I know that keeping up the tanks can get expensive). Am I missing something here? What size tanks would you recommend?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North Idaho
    Posts
    930

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    I just bought a 60 lb Chemaine tank filled for $165 ish filled. If your just cutting switch off of acetylene. A big oxygen bottle filled is $247.00

    Our outfit fills bottles but they still exchange, they test bottles first and fill bottles in 15-20 at a time so they won't fill your individual bottle.
    Last edited by fredschrom; 01-10-2012 at 12:19 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,272

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    A big oxygen bottle filled is $247.00
    I hope that's a misprint!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North Idaho
    Posts
    930

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    nope the 250 sq ft, the high pressures which you can buy but are holly pain to get filled ( but hold twice as much ) are over $300, I choked also ( still choking BTW ). I am picking up a new one on Wednesday I will post with reciept in hand.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Deltaville, VA
    Posts
    2,903

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    Really depends on location.

    For several years I was able to get any of my "owned bottles" from 40-330 cu. ft. filled at my LWS. Then he sold out to one of the two major welding suppliers in the area.

    The new company (per stated policy) will not fill "owner bottles" larger than 150 cu. ft. I have a couple 330's that I own, and they have "made an exception" for me since I lease several (8) large bottles from them.

    I have no problem exchanging my owner bottles of less than 150 (got 6 125's that I use for portable work and seldom used gases). The only problem with the smaller bottles is the cost of gas per cu. ft. I'll elaborate later.

    Mixing my own gas mixes and the tig I do, means that Argon is my most "used" gas. I go thru at least a 330 of Argon about every three weeks. The lease on my large bottles is $62/yr/bottle. Sounds like a lot, but not really when you consider the cost of gas.

    Today I picked up an 80 of Argon in an "owner tank". This is a bottle I use for portable work and don't fill it that often. Cost to fill was $38.50 or .4813/cu ft of Argon. I also exchanged a 330 of Argon today. Cost for that refil was $82. or .2485/cu ft of Argon.

    In the larger bottles, my Argon costs me exactly half what it does in smaller owner bottles.

    Doesn't take long to offset the cost of leasing the larger bottles. Especially if they will continue to "slip in" my larger owner bottles as a favor to a good customer.

    Welding gasses are sort of a license to steal, but when you only have a couple choices about suppliers, you're sorta at their mercy. There's a lot of methane put out on the boards, but I haven't figured a way to pull Argon out of the air yet.
    Syncro 250 DX
    Dynasty 200 DX
    MM 251 w/30A SG
    XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima Pulser
    HH187
    Dialarc 250 AC/DC
    Hypertherm PM 1250
    Smith, Harris, Victor O/A
    Smith and Thermco Gas Mixers
    Access to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    16,647

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by hp246 View Post
    A independent welding shop told me they would give me two tanks, with a $50 deposit required for each tank, fill for acetylene was $50 and Oxygen $20 and no annual rental fee. they suggested either selling the small tanks or keeping as spares.

    The independent company sounds like the way to go (As a scuba diver, I know that keeping up the tanks can get expensive). Am I missing something here? What size tanks would you recommend?
    I'd go with the independent guy myself if what you state is true. That's a heck of a deal. Just make sure to get what the terms are in writing so you don't find out later there's a catch you didn't know about or so they don't decide to make changes later because you don't have anything written down.


    My LWS will allow me to "upgrade" to larger cylinders if I want up to a certain size. I just pay the difference in the cylinder costs. For example a "B" size 40 cf acet cost $75 to purchase, a 75 cf one $109. If I want to swap one of my 40's for a 75cf one I pay the extra $34 plus the fill cost and it's mine. I've done this several times in the past. I can even change gasses at no extra charge as long as the cylinders are the same size, say swap an 80cf of O2 for an 80cf of C25.


    As far as size, all depends how much you plan to use and what they have to give you. It's been almost 15 years since I had a "large" acet cylinder. At the time it was the biggest the place had for rental and I forget the actual size. We used it to do a lot of cutting on a demo job and as Sundown said it was cheaper per CF of gas. O2 I get in 282cf cylinders. That's the average "large" cylinder my place carries. Again it costs me a lot less per cf of gas to get that filled vs say my 75 cf of acet. For cutting I run out the 282 of O2 about the same time I do my 75 cf acet. If I'm heating, I go thru 3 75 cf of acet about the same time I go thru the 282 cf O2. If I did more of that, I'd go with a bigger acet cylinder or switch over to propane.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    104

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    Another option would be look for someone selling a big tank that has an owner ring of a LWS near you. A blank one would be better. I see lots of bad info here and at the local welding supply places on large tanks with the owners ring. They use to sell big tanks to people but stopped so they are legal to own without a contract. I hear it was a government thing. There are a lot of owner tanks out there. If you take it to that air supplier, they will fill it or exchange it if they have been around for a while. The bad thing is that if you move, you will be screwed so dont pay a lot for them. You dont need an account or anything. I bought a very old 282 oxy on craigslist for $100 that was out of test. took it to my LWS (Michigan Gas) and they gave me a new tank with their seal. I know I would be tied to them but I like them anyways. Also they and Air Gas are the only two in my area that will take a blank ring tank this size and Airgas is much more expensive.

    I paid 18 for the test and 18 for the oxy fill. Just saying there are other options. I am looking for a large Argon now. I have a bunch of 125 tanks as well but like the larger ones since you dont have to get them filled as often and its a lot cheaper. 125 oxy cost me 14 and 282 cost 18.

    I dont want to run all over the place depending on who owns the tank. I either look for blank ones or Michigan Gas.

    If you have an Airgas tank, you can walk in and exchange it at airgas. My buddy just did it. They dont ask for your account or anything.
    Last edited by mikeb9550; 01-10-2012 at 08:18 AM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Wv near ohio river
    Posts
    234

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    I guess the methane point must refer to not all the stuff in this threads correlates to experienced reality.

    I don't know what scuba tanks cost but carbon dioxide fire extinguishers are pretty pricey.
    The price you can get on account can vary drasticly, If you find someone in accounts payable and accounts receivable at a place that has like 15 leases, willing to share confidential information, it is likely half per cubic feet what you pay. I would think the no lease per cubic foot would have to be the higest unless it is some sort of cash deal.

    Lease generally means account which means credit check and liability of like $500 if you loose one of he big tanks. Even if it is a cash account with a deposit I bet you are liable for the tank, perhaps If it is stolen your insurance comes in. Those cash deposits get touchy when places get merged. If I wait on hold and talk to the main office they still have records but strangely it doesn't (didn't to be honest they said they weren't done with the merge) show up in the computer system at the branches.

    Like mentioned earlier It isn't too hard to get more actual tanks in circulation than you have leases. Now with the internet it is possible to aquire the flexible high pressure hoses to hook tanks to manifolds which the LWS most likely won't sell you. These enable tank to tank transfer, Of course at your own risk. Works for me for argon and oxygen.

    Those pony prices in the first post seem high I am not current on purchacing that sort of stuff but I think an 80 argon cost like $130 empty for an essentially new one (empty price) perhaps 5 years ago but time flies. And yes I had to pay probably a little more than half for the gas in it than the gas in the 336 one I lease.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    23

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    I can't beleive how much they are charging you guys to rent. Wielder Welding (my LWS) charged me $90 for 9 years TOTAL for my 250 CF tank.

    I researched rental costs when i bought my TIG and was prepared for sticker shock. When I asked about rental prices, he said $90 for 9 years. I said, "that's total for all 9 years, right" Just joking with him, expecting him to say it was $90/year. Nope, it's $90 for all nine years. That made leasing a no-brainer for me. Paying $0.80/month is not a sucker move in my book.

    caspian

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    104

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by caspian View Post
    I can't beleive how much they are charging you guys to rent. Wielder Welding (my LWS) charged me $90 for 9 years TOTAL for my 250 CF tank.

    I researched rental costs when i bought my TIG and was prepared for sticker shock. When I asked about rental prices, he said $90 for 9 years. I said, "that's total for all 9 years, right" Just joking with him, expecting him to say it was $90/year. Nope, it's $90 for all nine years. That made leasing a no-brainer for me. Paying $0.80/month is not a sucker move in my book.

    caspian
    The money that you save on buying the gas would way more than pay for it compared to the smaller tanks.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    161

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    Guys,
    Thank you for all the good information. I am going to try to find some owner tanks locally, if not, I'm going to go with the Indy shop.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    285

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by SundownIII View Post
    There's a lot of methane put out on the boards, but I haven't figured a way to pull Argon out of the air yet.
    I know how to do it, you just need $$

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    W. Wisc
    Posts
    121

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    I got my 125cf bottle on a "lifetime lease" from the LWS recently. I haven't filled it yet (first fill was included) but I think the refill is about $60. The lease is $150, one time. There is a hydro fee every 5 yrs of ~$15, but that's it otherwise. That is basically like buying the cylinder, for all practical purposes, except I can't take it elsewhere for fills. To me that is a non-issue as long as these guys stick around. They do it on bigger size bottles too, but the next step is 330, I think, and that is just way to big for my needs.

    I think they said they would refill owned cylinders of 125cf and up, but would not exchange them. They won't sell cylinders bigger than 80.
    -Dave
    XMT304, 22A Feeder

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Deltaville, VA
    Posts
    2,903

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    Actually, there's another issue involving bottles that no one has brought up.

    According to the stated policy of my LWS, you cannot OWN an acetylene bottle of sufficient capacity to run a medium size cutting torch, much less a decent rosebud.

    People will say (and to some extent I agree) that you need to make the switch to propane for cutting/heating. That's fine, but realize that using propane also increases the oxygen consumed for a given task. That 125cu ft "owner bottle" of oxygen isn't going to last long.

    I don't use that much ox/ace for cutting (the plasma has reduced that considerably), but I do have a need for a rosebud (used for removing seized propellers). Therefore, I lease a 300+ cu ft bottle of acetylene. May not have it filled but every couple of years, but I still have to pay the lease.
    Syncro 250 DX
    Dynasty 200 DX
    MM 251 w/30A SG
    XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima Pulser
    HH187
    Dialarc 250 AC/DC
    Hypertherm PM 1250
    Smith, Harris, Victor O/A
    Smith and Thermco Gas Mixers
    Access to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,427

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    [QUOTE=gwiley;471863

    Arcet doesn't sell tanks over 80cf oxygen, 55cf acetylene which rules out buying tanks from them for cutting anything thicker than foil - have to stick to their lease to get the big ones


    The bottom line - the rental tanks from Arcet make more sense for me.[/QUOTE]

    you could manifold a few small acet tanks together..payoff is a differnt story..

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,272

    Re: compared oxy/acet tank rental to purchase

    If you have buddies with contracts, running privately obtained cylinders through them is easy enough.

    I lurk Craigslist and have gotten a good variety of OA and cylinders over the years for very little. If the price is trivial I'll just keep adding them and swapping them out one way or another.

    You can also have multiple LWS for refills depending on what you accumulate.

    You might also want to consider who will be around in a few years to fill the large, owner cylinders.
    e.g. What may be possible today might not be possible in 5 years.
    US rules don't tend to be too crazy where there's competition between suppliers. A quick Google near OPs location suggests he many have some choice.

    If your local choice changes, you can always sell the cylinders in the forum here to someone who can use them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
RSS | Home | Penton Media | Contact Us | Subscribe | For Advertisers | Terms of Use | Privacy Statement