Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld
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  1. #1
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    Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — A Montana pipeline that spilled 30,000 gallons of oil had been split at the site of an exposed weld where the line crosses beneath the Yellowstone River, officials said, prompting a warning for pipeline companies nationwide to take precautions against flooding.

    The damaged section of the 12-inch pipeline that crosses the Yellowstone upstream of the city of Glendive was pulled from the river Wednesday.

    It will be sent to a laboratory in Oklahoma for analysis, said Tim Butters, pipeline safety administrator at the U.S. Department of Transportation. The cause of the split has not been determined.

    "There are a number of different scenarios," Butters said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "Was it metal-related? Was it external force related? All of that needs to be looked at."

    The Yellowstone spill in January contaminated water supplies for about 6,000 residents of Glendive and raised public health concerns in communities downstream in North Dakota.

    The line, which was installed in 1967, is owned by Bridger Pipeline LLC of Casper, Wyoming. Company spokesman Bill Salvin said the break occurred along a section of the line between 100- and 120-feet long that somehow became exposed to the river.

    An advisory warning pipeline companies about potential damage from severe flooding was scheduled to be published Thursday in the Federal Register. It cites the recent Yellowstone spill and several prior pipeline accidents caused by flooding or similar issues at river crossings in Iowa, Nebraska and Montana.

    There are thousands of such river crossings nationwide, including at least 64 in Montana.

    Federal regulations require pipelines to be buried just four feet beneath river bottoms.

    Officials have said they have no plans to tighten those rules. Rather, it's up to companies to make sure their pipelines are safe, Butters said.

    Only about 2,500 gallons of oil were recovered from the January spill.

    Salvin said Bridger Pipeline will begin assessing the river's shoreline for damage once water levels drop. However, no more oil is expected to be recovered.

    "We've recovered everything that can be recovered at this point, so it's now what can be remediated," he said.

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pipe...was-split-weld

  2. #2
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    California (Santa Barbara) pipeline leak sounds suspiciously similar. No definite answers yet, pipeline needs to be drained before excavation can begin. Partial clip of the article...
    **********
    The 2-foot-wide pipe at issue in California had no previous problems and was thoroughly inspected in 2012, according to the company. It underwent similar tests about two weeks ago, although the results had not been analyzed.

    Federal regulators said Friday that the 2012 inspection identified 41 "anomalies" along the pipeline, mostly due to external corrosion that frequently was found near welds.

    At 28 years old, the pipeline is just half the age of many pipes that were installed during the industrial boom of the 1950s and 1960s, some of them with a structurally flawed welding technology that regulators say is prone to failure.

    **********
    Complete article found here:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/with-soa...ipeline-leaks/
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  3. #3
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Big businesses go by the mantra" put it in cheap and fast worry about it later" or " its the price of business losses that are acceptable"I doubt any of the people that where responsible for most of the pipeline installed 20 years and older are even in the same company or still around to answer for it....the same in every other industry,
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  4. #4
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Pipeline will eventually require replacement. It's part of the cost of oil dependence. We have no problem with FAA inspection of aircraft and certification of aircrews. We should have government inspections of infrastructure such as pipeline which crosses the commons. Anyone who trusts business to care about Americans missed the Recession...

  5. #5
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Yeah the feds and states are doing such a good inspecting infrastructure like roads and bridges.... Last person I'd trust to control anything like that is a politician or career bureaucrat. They'll make a big deal over new regulations as soon as something fails, ( when there's probably dozens of laws and regs that already cover what ever the problem was) yet they never will bother to put any effort into preventative maintenance in advance of a known problem. They'll still keep pushing jobs to their cronies or to the lowest bidder rather than concentrate on building something safe that will last.

    At least in a company, there's serious consequences both legally and financially when things fail. That's not true with government. We'll send people to jail for things like a pipeline rupture, but I'd be surprised if anyone responsible even lost their job on something that was inspected like a bridge if it failed. Sure the head guy might get sacked as a "feel good" measure so people think something has been done, but chances are he'll probably still get his pension and everything else the job brought along. He'll probably just move on to some other political position instead.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    Pipeline will eventually require replacement. It's part of the cost of oil dependence. We have no problem with FAA inspection of aircraft and certification of aircrews. We should have government inspections of infrastructure such as pipeline which crosses the commons. Anyone who trusts business to care about Americans missed the Recession...

    Oh yeah the government is really good at passing the buck, kicking the can down the road I will say that. Please pull your head out of the sand, there is way more data that contradicts these lame statements. The truth is exactly opposite of what you post, need to read more and stop watching CNN..
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  7. #7
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    You cannot contend any metal structure has infinite life, so my statement that pipeline will eventually require replacement is logical. It is supportable by the fact pipeline requires inspection and maintenance.

    Why do you object to government oversight? Businesses without regulation would be as they unrestrained as they were in the 1800s with equally awful safety, product quality control and pollution output.
    They only reason you have any rights as a worker is because union workers coerced all of them by collective bargaining. Shall I post a list?

    There is a fine example of the free market where businesses face little regulation. It's calleed "mainland China". I don't get my opinions from CNN. You appear to get yours from Fox News. Both are propaganda outlets designed to manipulate simpletons.

  8. #8
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Government may create an environment thru which companies police themselves. In reality no company really WANTS to have these failures. A shut down pipe line makes them no money, add in fines and penalties on top of lost income and the costs can be staggering. Lost oil is lost money. I'll admit bean counters play the "pay now vs pay later" game. How little can they put out while keeping the money coming in, vs the risk if their guess is wrong.


    Government itself however has no reason to police itself. A government bureaucrat has almost complete immunity to being fired, even if he's negligent. The government seldom puts any of it's own in jail. Same thing goes with bridge collapses that government agencies are supposed to inspect. Did anyone get fined or loose their jobs when that piece fell off the San Francisco- Oakland bay bridge damaging 3 vehicles? Only by pure luck no one was killed. Poor inspection, poor maintenance, too much money to do needed repairs or inconvenience of shutting down the bridge... Want to take a guess what would have happened if that had been a privately owned enterprise, say a ferry?

    Government today is bloated with career bureaucrats and politicians. Unlike a business that has to show a profit and has interests in keeping costs down while providing a service/product, government has no incentives to do so, and has pretty much unlimited funds to play with. Even so, they can't/won't spend the money and time to do things right. If government was a business, it would have failed long ago. It spends too much and provides too little for what gets spent.
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    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

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  9. #9
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Quote Originally Posted by DSW View Post
    Government may create an environment thru which companies police themselves. In reality no company really WANTS to have these failures. A shut down pipe line makes them no money, add in fines and penalties on top of lost income and the costs can be staggering. Lost oil is lost money. I'll admit bean counters play the "pay now vs pay later" game. How little can they put out while keeping the money coming in, vs the risk if their guess is wrong.
    Do they not want failures, or do they simply not want to get caught? Actual public opinion doesn't matter if you've got two or three board members in common with a national media conglomerate. Have we all forgotten the lessons of Enron and Arthur Anderson?

    Government itself however has no reason to police itself. A government bureaucrat has almost complete immunity to being fired, even if he's negligent. The government seldom puts any of it's own in jail. Same thing goes with bridge collapses that government agencies are supposed to inspect. Did anyone get fined or loose their jobs when that piece fell off the San Francisco- Oakland bay bridge damaging 3 vehicles? Only by pure luck no one was killed. Poor inspection, poor maintenance, too much money to do needed repairs or inconvenience of shutting down the bridge... Want to take a guess what would have happened if that had been a privately owned enterprise, say a ferry?

    Government today is bloated with career bureaucrats and politicians. Unlike a business that has to show a profit and has interests in keeping costs down while providing a service/product, government has no incentives to do so, and has pretty much unlimited funds to play with. Even so, they can't/won't spend the money and time to do things right. If government was a business, it would have failed long ago. It spends too much and provides too little for what gets spent.
    I could make a fairly strong case it's because the government doesn't have the money to lure top brains and top workers away from private industry, and all too often bureaucrats are only waiting to get hired away by the private sector to guide companies thru the loopholes in the permitting or inspection processes. Government offices are also usually under- staffed. Small government initiatives don't help the situation- more often than not, they make it worse. For example, the vehicle registration office here used to have a wait time of less than 45 minutes; after 2010 the new guy in charge laid off most of the staff and the wait time became most of a day for just a simple renewal.

    Then again, a small government advocate could also point to the long line and say it's a reason to do away with car registrations altogether, since the process has become so drawn- out. He wouldn't have to realize it was a small government policy that caused the logjam in the first place.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Quote Originally Posted by teh603 View Post
    Do they not want failures, or do they simply not want to get caught? Actual public opinion doesn't matter if you've got two or three board members in common with a national media conglomerate. Have we all forgotten the lessons of Enron and Arthur Anderson?
    I seriously doubt it's all about getting caught, though I'll admit it can be a good reason to avoid those issues. Failures mean lost materials, and down time due to the system being shut down. All of that cuts into the revenue generation of a company. Companies make money for their owners, and more importantly their share holders since very few medium to large companies are still independently owned. If you have any sort of stocks or retirement funds, all that money for growth is coming from the profits of corporations in dividends and the sale of stock that is driven by the reported profits of that company. Wall street takes a dim view of things like this on average.
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    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

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  11. #11
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Wall street takes a dim view of things like this on average.
    Wall Street on average uncritically embraced kiting mortgage-backed securities. That destroys any contention Wall Street has collective ethics beyond short-term profit for the people making the decisions and commissions.

    Did you live under a rock during the Recession? Big boys don't care about your little people morals, OR YOU. We peasant scum are what the rich scrape off their shoes however pathetically commoners lick their boots and pretend the rich care about anyone else.

    They do cheerfully accept the opportunity to loot your taxes to bail out the consequences of their own corruption.

    If you STILL have any stocks or retirement funds. they escaped the Recession though usually not unscathed. The inherent untrustworthiness of Wall Street displayed in 1929 is why we have Social Security, because investment is not highly reliable.

  12. #12
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    Wall Street on average uncritically embraced kiting mortgage-backed securities. That destroys any contention Wall Street has collective ethics beyond short-term profit for the people making the decisions and commissions.

    Did you live under a rock during the Recession? Big boys don't care about your little people morals, OR YOU. We peasant scum are what the rich scrape off their shoes however pathetically commoners lick their boots and pretend the rich care about anyone else.

    They do cheerfully accept the opportunity to loot your taxes to bail out the consequences of their own corruption.

    If you STILL have any stocks or retirement funds. they escaped the Recession though usually not unscathed. The inherent untrustworthiness of Wall Street displayed in 1929 is why we have Social Security, because investment is not highly reliable.
    wall street is drooling over what money is left in social security. i know s.s. isn't much but we wouldn't have that if the politicians ever put it in private hands.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Docwelder and farmall-100% right on that. I think your vision is 20/20

  14. #14
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Quote Originally Posted by docwelder View Post
    wall street is drooling over what money is left in social security. i know s.s. isn't much but we wouldn't have that if the politicians ever put it in private hands.
    There is no money in the social security fund, they spent it all, and it is running off of the current yearly input of taxes.

  15. #15
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    Re: Pipeline that leaked into Montana river was split at weld

    Well if government left the moneys alone back in the 70 or 80 then we would not have a problem today with SS funds. But they saw this big stack sitting over there and said to them selves look we can rob the stack and use here we will put in back when needed. Opps some one missed the when needed part... Now it's needed and the stack is gone and not being replenished by the contributors today.
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