millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    33

    millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    I have a millermatic 211 and its input power is 120v/20A or 230V/25A. I have a honda generator an eb3000 with 2600w 120v/21.7A. It runs the welder but it seems the arc isn't as good as it should be. I used to have a millermatic 140 and used it with the same generator and it performed much better.

    I was looking at getting a eb6500 generator with 6500w 250v/22.9A, to handle it better but its still underrated for the input. Any suggestions? I dont have 230v at my house

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    210

    Re: millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    The input power requirement is going to change depending on how many amps you're using from the welder. When you say that the arc isn't as good as it should be.. are you comparing the arc to some other time, or is it just a general idea of the performance?

    Look at getting a larger generator that will more closely match the power requirements. The generator manufacturer is going to list the "performance" of the generator at the point where the power starts to fall too far out of spec to be usable. The welder manufacturer is going to go the other way to make the welder seem as efficient and easy to power as is possible. To get the welder to work well on the generator, you probably want the generator to be at least 10% over rated, but 25% or more would be better.

    You don't have 230v? (220, 230, and 240; are all pretty much interchangeable). This is very strange. I find it hard to imagine that there is no 230 somewhere that you can divert it from. Do you have an electric laundry dryer, air conditioner, electric stove/oven, electric water heater? Any one of these would run on 230. If you can at all find and divert 230, you will be much better off than getting a larger generator. It is only 25 amps, it would not take much of an extension cord to carry that; it could be built quite cheaply.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds." -- Albert Einstein

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    33

    Re: millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    I compared the arc to the 140 unit. the 211 just seems hard to keep it going like its not getting enough power. i tripped the breakers on the generator when i turn up the heat. I used the unit outside alot to fix things hear and there and equipement. I just looked and theirs 230v in my basement but that doesn't help because then i would have run a line outside and be close to the house. I was looking at getting a honda eb6500 or a millerbluestar185dx. they are both about the same output, but still under what miller says the imput is by about 2 amps. Do you think that is a big deal?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    33

    Re: millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    your not getting enough amps because the generator is not keeping up with peak demand.

    The welder assumes the power coming in to be what the local power plant provides. The generator is providing less than that. have you tried bringing up the heat setting?
    Michael White



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Cal., Shasta County
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    7,081

    Re: millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    Looks like that genset model is really only 5 kw run with 6.5 kw max. I can tell you I can run my lincoln 215 off a 7500 run generator and it is different. When you size a generator right at the ragged edge of what your welder with control circuitry needs there will be oddities. You can feel the sags and surges while welding. Nature of the beast. Only way to get around that is to size the genset about double of what you need for any one device.

    Honda will be one of the best tho. Seems like for the price of that Honda a guy could do a lot of $$'s worth of something else. Unless you live off the grid I guess. Then there is the dollars per hour of running things off a generator anymore. Keep in mind that few of us hobby guys truly have 240 vac at our house. We use two 120 circuits (split phase) for a potential of 240 across the two. It's rare for any recent built home to not have thes two 120 circuits available.
    Last edited by Sandy; 06-05-2011 at 12:57 PM.
    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    33

    Re: millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by DHPmike View Post
    your not getting enough amps because the generator is not keeping up with peak demand.

    The welder assumes the power coming in to be what the local power plant provides. The generator is providing less than that. have you tried bringing up the heat setting?

    Yes i have turned up the heat but it seems at the generator cant handle the power needs.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    16,376

    Re: millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    As Sandy said gen sets are often advertised at peak power, not continuous power, at least with smaller units. Thats fine if you want to plug in an AC or fridge where the start up draw is high, but the run power is low. Thats not the case with a welder however. Also remember that the power requirement listed for the welder is usually at the "rated" output, not the max output. So if the machine wants 25 amps/ 230v to do 20% at 150 amps, but the machine will max at 200 amps, it's going to draw more than that 25 amp input, posibly 30 amps or more. This makes it critical that you up size a gen set if you plan to use one, not go with a minimum based on rated output.

    I have to agree that it's unusuall not to have 230v power at a house. As suggested many have a 230v 30 amp dryer that can be used with a cord or a 230v 50 amp range. The few who don't have "easy" access are usually those that have natural gas or propane appliances. The 230v power is usually still there however, it's just harder to access. You can probalbly have a licenced electrician run you a 230v line for less than a gen set that size would cost.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Ceres, California
    Posts
    2,580

    Re: millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    Try a smaller welding wire 0.035 uses more power than 0.030 and 0.023.
    Hard wire takes more power than flux core.
    You might get it to weld passable by using wire that requires less power to weld.
    100 feet of 10 gauge Soow cord will get you far from the house and work very good.
    You can get 30 amps of 230 volt power through that cord. Just what you can get from a dryer plug.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    hicksville,West Virginia
    Posts
    372

    Re: millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    gnarlyrider410:You ran a millermatic 140 with 2600 watts generator with no problem?
    Drink a Guinness Draught....
    Millermatic 140
    Do you still remember
    December's foggy freeze --
    when the ice that
    clings on to your beard is
    screaming agony.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,505

    Re: millermatic 211 powered by generator questions.

    Let's take a logical approach...

    Look at the specifications.
    Millermatic 140
    Input: 115 volts at 20 amps (2300 watts)
    Output: 90 amps at 18 volts (1620 watts) with 20% duty cycle

    Millermatic 211
    Input: 120 volts at 20 amps (2400 watts) or,
    Output: 90 amps at 20 volts (1800 watts) with 20% duty cycle

    Input: 230 volts at 25 amps (5750 watts)
    Output: 150 amps at 23.5 volts (3525 watts) with 30%, duty cycle

    As has been stated already the input ratings are often approximations. The fact is that the MM211 has a larger transformer than the MM140 and would be expected to draw more current for similar output Not a problem if your generator can supply it... but can it?

    Here's the specs on the Honda EB3000 generator:
    Honda EB3000
    120V only, 3000W max.(25A), 2600W rated (21.7A at 120V)

    The generator outputs 120 volts at 21.7 amps = 2600 watts continuous output.
    Your MM140 wants 2300 watts, just 300 watts less that your generator's max output!
    IMO you have already past the limt - especially because most generators do not like feeding an inductive load - like a transformer welder. Frankly, I am surprised your MM140 works as well as you say it does because most generators have to be sized 50% larger (read 1.5 x 2300 = 3450 watts) to feed a transformer-based welder.

    Your MM211 wants 2400 watts, just 200 watts less than your generator's max output! Again you are past the limt - more especially now that your generator is trying to feed an even bigger inductive load - the larger transformer of the MM211. IMO, that's why you are observing a fall off in performance.

    So where does that put you?

    1) If you only want to use the MM211 on 115 volts (Duh? Why limit that powerful welder by doing that - why not go for 230 volts?), then you need a generator with about 3500 watts output at 115 volts - that means 3500/115 = 30.4 amps at one receptacle... that might be hard to find on a 115 volt generator.

    2) If you want to use your MM211 on 230 volts to obtain the full capacity of the welder, you are going to need a bigger generator. How big?
    The MM211 specs say input is 230 volts at 25 amps (5750 watts). For a matching generator, I'd up that figure by 50% because you will be fedding transformer-based welder (inductive load) not an inverter welder (resistive load). That means that ideally you need a generator with 1.5 x 5750 = 8,625 watts continuous rating. Anything less may not allow the MM211 to reach it's full performance.

    What would happen if you use the Honda EB6500?
    EB6500 Specifications...
    120/240V 6500W max. (54 amps at 120 volts, 27 amps at 240 volts) and/or 5500W rated (45 amps at 120 volts, 22.9 amps at 240 volts)

    Note: On most generators, you can only draw the full output when connected to the 230 volt receptacle. If you connect to one 115 volt receptacle, you are usually limited to 1/2 the generator's output.

    OK, you connect up your MM211 to the EB6500 generator's 230 volt outlet receptacle. You have 5500 watts continuously available to feed mostly a resistive load. Your MM211 at max output tries to draw 5750 watts into it's inductive transformer. IMO it might work well up to 70% of it's rated output or 0.7 x 150 amps = 105 amps. After that, it's a crap shoot depending how your particular generator likes to feed an inductive load.

    You appear to be limited with Honda generators because they don't seem to sell a generator bigger that the EB6500. IMO opinion, your're going to need a generator with about 8600 watts continuous output. Hey, you might get lucky and achieve acceptable/good performance from a quality brand generator with a rated 7500 watt continuos output.

    That's my take on this...
    Rick V

    1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR
    3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel
    1 Lincoln MIG PAK 15
    1 Oxy-Acet

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