spring steel?
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Thread: spring steel?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    12

    spring steel?

    a guy called me and wants to know if i can weld spring steel, so of course i said yes. now if only i knew what it was, and which rod to use on it. its been welded before but with what? any help would be greatly appreciated

  2. #2
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    Aug 2006
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    San Dimas, CA
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    Re: spring steel?

    Well, you'd better call him back and tell him that you can't weld spring steel.

    Welding causes de-carbonization and makes the steel VERY brittle. Even if the weld looks sound, the part WILL fail...usually in the HAZ.
    Hold my beer...watch this.

  3. #3
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    Re: spring steel?

    AND you will damage the heat treat if it is already made into something like a leaf spring. It will be easy to bend in the places it does not brake.



  4. #4
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    Jun 2005
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    Re: spring steel?

    If I remember I read on a book you can weld that spring steel, but it would need to be heat treated again so it can recover it´s elasticity. Was the book right?
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  5. #5
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    Re: spring steel?

    Not in my mind.

    Can you weld it?
    Sure, it will stick together? Sure.

    What bothers me about what your books says is for example a leaf spring. Most are either 1095 or more likely 5160. You weld it all up as you need it to be. Then you need to go through the heat treat process which includes hardening and then tempering. This is roughly a follows:

    To get a proper heat treat you need to first normalize the steel. This means you have to heat it all up to non-magnetic and allow to cool to black. You do this three times. Then you need to harden it. You take it up to non-magnetic and quench in oil. Then you need to reheat to temper, 5160 requires three temper cycles to temper it correctly.

    Your spring is tempered but your weld and the part you welded on just went through Hell. I would doubt they could stand up to the stress of the hardening and temper.

    I would think it would still fail rather quickly.



  6. #6
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    Jan 2004
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    Northern Cal., Shasta County
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    Re: spring steel?

    Not in my mind.

    Can you weld it?
    Sure, it will stick together? Sure.

    What bothers me about what your books says is for example a leaf spring.
    This is where I'd have to concur. This is one of those questions where the application will dictate.

    You could probably break this down to 1) can you weld spring steel==yeh, sort of. 2) can you effectively repair a broken spring to be put back into service==probably not.

    Of course all this has to be put into perspective. Modern springs are a marvel resulting from science, technology, processes and technique. Sure, whatever was made by one man can be replicated or repaired by another, but remember the original came out of a manufacturing facility equipped with gazzillions of dollars of specialized equipment.

  7. #7
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    Sep 2006
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    Re: spring steel?

    thanx fellers

  8. #8
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    Re: spring steel?

    Quote Originally Posted by smokke
    thanx fellers
    Keep in mind that if this is a repair you can try a "no guarantee" It is worth the education of that great teacher "expereince".
    If it is something critical and possibly life threatening then I would decline the job. If however it is not dangerous I would preheat to around 400 degrees F for over one inch on each side of the joint. Weld up the veed out crack or vee out the fracture.
    Choose either a 10018 rod or even higher. The other choice is something like a 309 Cool the assembly in some sort of insulator like vermiculite or kaowool blanket. Impress on the guy that the guarantee expires at the door.

  9. #9
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    Re: spring steel?

    i would not touch it
    if it fails .. you dont want to be "it"
    you fixed it..
    so your it..

    ...zap!


    I am not completely insane..
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  10. #10
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    Re: spring steel?

    sounds dangerous to me spring steel + welding = DANGEROUS PART FAILURE +

  11. #11
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    Aug 2006
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    48

    Re: spring steel?

    To get a good bead you'd need to do a pre-weld heat treatment (normalize) then a post-weld heat treatment (normalize again), then harden, then temper.

    Seriously.

    On the other hand, talk to the guy, maybe the application is such that having it stuck together for a while is more important than having the repair last without cracking.
    Kalroy
    "It's all about the OODA Loop."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Fenwick, West Virginia
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    Re: spring steel?

    Quote Originally Posted by elvergon
    If I remember I read on a book you can weld that spring steel, but it would need to be heat treated again so it can recover it´s elasticity. Was the book right?
    Yes, you are correct. If 'spring steel' is heated and slowly cooled it becomes soft. 'No memory'. If it is heated and quick cooled when stressed it will crack like glass. Old 'Blacksmith' books cover the subject very well. "Forge Craft" (year 1913) States "Fish oil is used especially for spring steel". Car springs, carriage springs, and the like are usually hardened in it. The material of which springs are made is peculiarly liable to crack if hardened in clear water. It can, however, be done successfully in distilled water having enough soap in it to make its chilling effects the same as oil.

    There is a lot more to it than just cooling the spring in oil. If you really want to know pick up a copy of "Forge Craft" reprinted by Lindsay Publications.
    Ironheart...

    Beat it to fit, paint it to match

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    52

    Re: spring steel?

    do not do it

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