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Thread: Tacky tacks

  1. #1
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    Tacky tacks

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    Sorry once again for the rotated pic. Can't figure out how to rotate it after attaching. Anyway, tacking together 5/32 mild steel fillet joint with 3/32 7018 electrode @ 93 amps. First off I'm not sure if tacking at the ends is the proper way to do this. I have done tacks both ways but like this better. Second, every time I tack at the end I get that undercut on the top piece. I have tried different angles, manipulation, etc. Too hot maybe? I tried lowering the amps but kept sticking rods. Input much appreciated.
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    Last edited by matyboom808; 01-08-2017 at 05:16 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    No photo.

  3. #3
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Quote Originally Posted by matyboom808 View Post
    Attachment 1587201

    Sorry once again for the rotated pic. Can't figure out how to rotate it after attaching. Anyway, tacking together 5/32 mild steel fillet joint with 3/32 7018 electrode @ 93 amps. First off I'm not sure if tacking at the ends is the proper way to do this. I have done tacks both ways but like this better. Second, every time I tack at the end I get that undercut on the top piece. I have tried different angles, manipulation, etc. Too hot maybe? I tried lowering the amps but kept sticking rods. Input much appreciated.
    .
    .
    easier to tack weld with 6011 maybe 3/32 6011 at 60 amps,........ you can finish welding with 7018 if you want. 5/32 thick material especially if any gap in parts i would use less amps maybe 80 amps or less

  4. #4
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Hold your phone horizontal.

    Start tacks at the end and go to the middle.

    Make your tacks skinny enough that you can weld over them.
    Last edited by TimmyTIG; 01-08-2017 at 05:28 PM.

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    Re: Tacky tacks

    I'll have to try that with 6011 and turn the amps down. Would tacking with 6011 work better because it's a "fast freeze" electrode?

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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Try it and see. Then turn your phone sideways and take a pic!

  7. #7
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Quote Originally Posted by matyboom808 View Post
    I'll have to try that with 6011 and turn the amps down. Would tacking with 6011 work better because it's a "fast freeze" electrode?
    .
    .
    you long arc length 6011 for a second to warm up metal, not depositing metal, then shorten up arc length to deposit a little tack weld, usually tack is concave shaped cause you stop arc as soon as you see metal deposited
    .
    if you long arc 7018 you get weld porosity. if you grind weld you see little air bubbles

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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Thanks guys I'll give it a shot tomorrow and post results.
    Alohaz and mahalos!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    .
    easier to tack weld with 6011 maybe 3/32 6011 at 60 amps,........ you can finish welding with 7018 if you want. 5/32 thick material especially if any gap in parts i would use less amps maybe 80 amps or less
    Where do you get this? I'd never mess with getting two different rods out just to tack with one then weld with the other. 7018 is plenty good to tack with. I don't get it

  10. #10
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Showdog75 View Post
    Where do you get this? I'd never mess with getting two different rods out just to tack with one then weld with the other. 7018 is plenty good to tack with. I don't get it
    Hey watch it now, he's been welding for aeons, and has welded 1.21GT (giga-tons) of steel! Not only that, his weekly digests on new-found 6011/6013/7018 properties clearly show he knows.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Showdog75 View Post
    Where do you get this? I'd never mess with getting two different rods out just to tack with one then weld with the other. 7018 is plenty good to tack with. I don't get it
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    i already explain why 6010 or 6011 better for tacking. you can long arc length, not depositing metal to warm it up. then shorten arc length and as you see weld puddle form you stop. this gives a concave not very big tack weld. easy to weld over and very little slag if any
    .
    7018 you cannot long arc without porosity. even moving 7018 rod around fast at arc start will cause porosity if you grind weld you will see small porosity bubbles. so you usually have to fight cold starts with 7018. if you start arc and do a small circle it will warm up arc start but leave a bigger tack weld. it is harder to make small concave tacks with 7018
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    and yes i have easily welded over 1000 tons of steel over the years.
    .
    feel free to use any rod you want. i only mentioned what works well for me after welding easily over 1000 tons of steel

  12. #12
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    I would use 6011 or 6010 5p+. Start your arc on the base metal ant then work the puddle onto the edge of the angle. 6011 and 6010 has more penetration than 7018 so 7018 needs more time to burn in. That's not what you want for tacks or root pass. It only takes a second to change rods anyway. Re strikes on 7018 create porosity and inclusions. You may want to stick with the same 6011 or 6010 for the whole project if you don't need the extra strength. The newer 6011 and 6010 has well over the listed 60,000 psi strength anyway.

    This is from Lincoln. It list their 6010 psi strength at 60-86,000 psi strength.

    Lincoln Electric® Fleetweld® 5P+ Carbon Steel Electrode measuring 1/8" ideally designed for welding on steel that cannot be cleaned completely offers light slag with minimal slag interference to provide easy arc control and deep penetration with maximum admixture for strong welds. It is also designed for use with DC+ operation in all positions for fabrication, maintenance and pipe welding. It has 60 - 86000 psi tensile strength that can be used for vertical-up and overhead plate welding with out-of-position x-ray quality welding applications.

    https://www.airgas.com/p/LINED010278

  13. #13
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    The Hobart 6011 type 335C has 94,000 psi tinsel strength and 85,000 yield strength.
    So why do they call it 6011 instead of 8011 or 9011?

  14. #14
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    1000 tons of steel welded...... is this a mines bigger than yours kinda thing now? You don't want to go there.

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    Re: Tacky tacks

    I've welded a mountain of pipe, how many tons is that?

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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    .
    you long arc length 6011 for a second to warm up metal, not depositing metal, then shorten up arc length to deposit a little tack weld, usually tack is concave shaped cause you stop arc as soon as you see metal deposited
    .
    if you long arc 7018 you get weld porosity. if you grind weld you see little air bubbles


    Makes perfect sense to me.

    I also find it's easier to relight a 6011 than a 7018 always seems to get a hard coating over the end /flux.

    the Lincoln Xcal. at least...


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  17. #17
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    So when you guys talk long arc at the beginning of the tack will I still see a puddle form when I shorten the arc? Or is it more like heat up metal with long arc then short arc for a split second?

  18. #18
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Long arcing is not a good thing. Unless you're trying to burn off some paint or something. Keep it tight, Grasshopper.

    Just remember- not everybody on here is an expert, even though some may think they are.

    You don't preheat the metal with the rod, that just throws buckshot everywhere. If you need to preheat - which I don't know why you would, unless your ambient temperature is less than 50 degrees - you preheat with a torch of some kind.
    Last edited by TimmyTIG; 01-11-2017 at 01:44 AM.

  19. #19
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Being that you're in Hawaii, I think you can skip the long arc preheat.

  20. #20
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Quote Originally Posted by matyboom808 View Post
    So when you guys talk long arc at the beginning of the tack will I still see a puddle form when I shorten the arc? Or is it more like heat up metal with long arc then short arc for a split second?
    .
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    https://www.google.com/search?q=weld...ilitator+guide
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    the Lincoln Facilator guide is a stick welding training guide that explains better than me. notice lesson 1 starting arc. it amazes me when i hear some not even have heard of start arc long for a second and then shorten arc length. it is only lesson 1 on how to weld
    .
    6011 you can vary arc length to control things. basically you can maintain a arc and not deposit metal. it is cooler technically but still arc will warm up metal. tack welding with 6011 is easier. it does not form a hard coating on rod end so reusing a welding rod is far easier and faster. usually with 6011 or 6010 you long arc at weld start a second then shorten up arc length. this warm up avoids a cold arc start cause you warmed up metal with the long arc. hard to describe but done everyday. whipping is taught in school along with weaving. it is a beginner technique most welders can do.
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    some welding machines with low arc voltage do not allow a longer arc length. those machines you are limited on what you can do. ideally you should be able to maintain a 1/4" arc length although normal welding you keep it 1/16 to 3/16 with 6011 rod. with 7018 if you use a long arc length you get porosity. often if you grind 7018 weld starts you will see little pin holes. usually from a long arc and motions too fast
    .
    i have often welded steel beams and columns that were over 1 ton each. bigger columns can be 5000 lbs. does not take long to weld up many tons of steel in a week. in many ways welding thinner metal and smaller parts can be harder to do. burning through, warpage, joint fit up more a problem with sheet metal. usually you use more tack welds and weld only a short distance and let part cool off
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    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 01-11-2017 at 11:04 AM.

  21. #21
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    7018 weld starts are different usually you start arc (short arc length) along weld path move to weld beginning (some make a circle weave at weld start and reduce circle size as weld and part warm up) and weld over where arc started
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    so some start 3/8" to 1/2" from start end, make a circle (less than 3 rod diameter or less, 1/8-3/8 usually) toward weld start end and make gradually smaller circles as they weld over arc start. the theory being the wider circle weave helps prevent a cold narrow weld start or poorly penetrated weld start. if you move rod too quick at arc start often if you grind weld start you will see small pin holes in metal. 7018 does not like rapid movements
    .
    again if anybody never heard of starting arc this way i would suggest reading up on it like in Lincoln Facilitator guide on smaw welding lessons
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    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 01-11-2017 at 02:28 PM.

  22. #22
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    That article doesn't say anything about circles.

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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyTIG View Post
    That article doesn't say anything about circles.
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    making a wider weld at weld start is a common technique to compensate for narrow cold weld start. basically circle weaving at weld start going over weld start. (start 3/8- 1/2" from end, move toward end using arc/circle, then making circles away from end of part going over arc start marks) circle weave size is continuously adjusted to maintain weld width or bead size, so often circle weave size gets smaller as weld and part warms up and often no further circle weaving is needed. again if you never heard of circle arc start or circular weaving i suggest looking at
    .
    youtube welding training videos by Steve Bleile he sells dvd training videos (some of the best i have ever seen)
    Arc Welding 2 by Steve Bleile
    .
    https://www.amazon.com/Arc-Welding-I.../dp/B004G8BKDS
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 01-11-2017 at 03:03 PM.

  24. #24
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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Why would I want to get trained to do something that's unnecessary?

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    Re: Tacky tacks

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyTIG View Post
    Why would I want to get trained to do something that's unnecessary?
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    you acted like you never heard of making a circle at weld start to avoid a cold start. i only mentioned it as a common technique used by many and mentioned in the training video.
    .
    .does not mean you have to weld the way that many recommend. it is not universal but usually if you move in a straight line 1/2" away from end move to the end and reverse direction and weld over weld start it tends to be a cold start (narrow high weld start) or if you move too fast you can see weld porosity at arc start with 7018 when you grind weld start area

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