181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE
RSS | Subscribe | Contact Us | Advertise | About Us
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    100

    181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Hi Yesterday I Went to use the 181i To weld the damper on the wood burner in the house,
    Surprised to find it wouldn't even switch on ? Thinking there must be some thing wrong with the 240
    Lead from the generator I tried the big transformer oil filled welder I have and it worked perfectly
    I was pissed off and wondered if this is the case with inverter welders?
    I would swap the 181I for a 180 Lincoln any day The generator was a 5500w 9 hp Honda engine
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bemidji MN
    Posts
    11,749

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Fixed the title for you.

    From what I've been told on inverter machines, if the generator voltage or Hz are out of acceptable range it will not turn on.

    What model generator is it specifically? An actual Honda generator or just has a Honda engine?
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300
    Dialarc 250 AC/DC
    Invertec v250-s and v300 Pro
    ESAB 161
    SA200
    MM210
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    100

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Thanks Dave. No it is not a Honda Generator It says Power Guard on the generator
    It did easily handle the transformer welder 3/32 7014 about 115a I know inverters can be sensitive,
    But maybe that is a good thing At least it didn't damage the machine
    Thanks

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    west texas
    Posts
    2,061

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    A generator like that probably runs 62 to 63Hz at no load.
    The inverter could be set for 60Hz +/-1 or less.
    But my miller plasma cutter, which is inverter based will run 50 or 60Hz and on a generator no problem.
    old Miller spectrum 625
    Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wire
    Craftsman 230amp AC/DC and WP-18V torch
    Craftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torch
    Century 115-004 HF arc stabilizer
    Home made 4 transformer spot welder
    Home made alternator welder

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    103

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Josey View Post
    Thanks Dave. No it is not a Honda Generator It says Power Guard on the generator
    It did easily handle the transformer welder 3/32 7014 about 115a I know inverters can be sensitive,
    But maybe that is a good thing At least it didn't damage the machine
    Thanks
    Inverter welders normally require "Clean" power, in other words, power with less that 5%THD.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Bulldog Heaven at the end of my chain
    Posts
    2,177

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Yes and the consumer rated sets have nowhere near the stability overall for this type of duty.
    Slob

    Purveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.

    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    15

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    I was definitely glad to see that my Predator 6500 generator runs my new DR Tig/stick inverter just fine. I spent a couple hours this afternoon testing it out.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    6,478

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    The Thermal Arc 181i manual recommends a 9 kW generator ... ??? Seems a bit much.
    "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05
    Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3
    Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250
    SP-175 +
    Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)
    Lincwelder AC180C (1952)
    Victor & Smith O/A torches
    Miller spot welder

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    3,144

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldendum View Post
    The Thermal Arc 181i manual recommends a 9 kW generator ... ??? Seems a bit much.
    It's easy to bring a small generator to it's knees with stick welding though.
    First person on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling signature!

    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
    Millermatic 211 Inverter MIG w/ Spoolmate 150
    Eastwood 40A Plasma cutter

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    172

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    i've run my 181i off my trailblazer pretty often never had an issue. grab your multimeter and tells us what Hertz its running

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lansing, MI
    Posts
    5,935

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Ran one off an 8K generator many times when I worked on the farm. Never had any issues. Same 181i. A couple different units as a matter of fact, both of the farms had the same machine and generator. Used them in all processes as well off the generator.

    Might have been a little light on the power at only 5K watts.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    west texas
    Posts
    2,061

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldendum View Post
    The Thermal Arc 181i manual recommends a 9 kW generator ... ??? Seems a bit much.
    I got a 17.5kw run, 26kw surge to run my stick welder at full power.
    I could run it with my 7kw but it can barely do half power.
    old Miller spectrum 625
    Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wire
    Craftsman 230amp AC/DC and WP-18V torch
    Craftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torch
    Century 115-004 HF arc stabilizer
    Home made 4 transformer spot welder
    Home made alternator welder

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    south GA where its hot in summer and cold in winter
    Posts
    4,510

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Hz isn't as much of a factor as most of these units tolerate 50-60 Hz. It is likely that the unit didn't like the wave shape. A lot of your cheap-o generators do not run a true sine wave, but rather a modified square wave. These are for running resistive loads like lights. Or they have such a jagged sine wave that the units can't handle it. The 181 is probably generator compatible but your generator may not be welder compatible.
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lansing, MI
    Posts
    5,935

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Unless there's a problem with the cord (I assume you have a jump cord between the generator and welder cord) what Mark said right above is likely the issue.

    Get a multimeter and thoroughly check the cord from the generator to the welder. No power at all, it's a very possible cause.

    IMHO of course

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    3,144

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Quote Originally Posted by lugweld View Post
    Hz isn't as much of a factor as most of these units tolerate 50-60 Hz. It is likely that the unit didn't like the wave shape. A lot of your cheap-o generators do not run a true sine wave, but rather a modified square wave. These are for running resistive loads like lights. Or they have such a jagged sine wave that the units can't handle it. The 181 is probably generator compatible but your generator may not be welder compatible.
    Very well said. On a budget, the Troy-Bilt 7/10.5 kW generator available from lowes will power both my Millermatic 211 and Invertig 221 at decent output levels. It's stupid loud though, lol.
    First person on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling signature!

    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
    Millermatic 211 Inverter MIG w/ Spoolmate 150
    Eastwood 40A Plasma cutter

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Hamlin, NY
    Posts
    692

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    I've never had an issue running any inverters off generator sets. I'd suspect dirty power from the generator, spiky waveform, not a smooth sine wave.
    Ryan

    Miller Multimatic 200 w/tig,spool gun,wireless foot
    Millermatic 350P w/Bernard & XR Python guns
    Miller Dynasty 350 w/Coolmate 3.5 & wireless foot
    Miller Spectrum 375 X-treme
    Optrel e684
    Miller Digital Elite x2
    Miller Weld-Mask

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    100

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Thanks Everyone, a lot of interesting comments, The generator was not a cheap buy I paid 2300$
    about ten years ago But I know Generators have become much cheaper since then and more readily availably
    The 240 plug on the Generator is a 4 flat prong twist lock type I think they are called RV type
    The manual says the 240 can be either a 30 amp 120 or 240 depending on how it is wired
    The Generator has no trouble powering my big transformer stick welder So I know it is putting out enough power
    Just disappointed with the Thermal Arc" Thanks

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    6,478

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Disappointed with the welder or the generator? The welder only knows what it sees. The generator can put out whatever it wants. We do have a political thread if you want to name names.
    Last edited by Oldendum; 01-11-2017 at 05:58 PM.
    "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05
    Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3
    Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250
    SP-175 +
    Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)
    Lincwelder AC180C (1952)
    Victor & Smith O/A torches
    Miller spot welder

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    247

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Josey View Post
    Thanks Everyone, a lot of interesting comments, The generator was not a cheap buy I paid 2300$
    about ten years ago But I know Generators have become much cheaper since then and more readily availably
    The 240 plug on the Generator is a 4 flat prong twist lock type I think they are called RV type
    The manual says the 240 can be either a 30 amp 120 or 240 depending on how it is wired
    The Generator has no trouble powering my big transformer stick welder So I know it is putting out enough power
    Just disappointed with the Thermal Arc" Thanks
    I have 4 generators that I use for mobile work, my 10k and 12k gens will run all my welders and plasmas, they are very clean power. The cheap units 7.5 k I use for air compressors, chop saws, and grinders etc, I tried using one on the 252i only one time on very low power setting and did not like it at all, came on then shut off with code, its not the welders fault just crappy power from those generators. The only welder that I have that will work on those cheap units is the Esab Rebel. I think they designed those welders to work on big box store generators.

    Real clean power generators in 10k and up start around $2500 with Honda power or other name brand engine. If the manufacturer does not list the THD specs then figure it's not going to be clean enough for some inverters.
    Now it seems all I own are ESAB products and a lonely Hypertherm 85

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    2,711

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Did you make your jumper/adapter? Is it correctly wired?

    Also, that transformer welder... Did it weld at max power?
    Last edited by tapwelder; 01-11-2017 at 11:42 PM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    south GA where its hot in summer and cold in winter
    Posts
    4,510

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Cost has nothing to do with quality of sine wave. Northern tool has a powerhorse line that is cheap, but is clean power. 9kw is about 700 on sale.
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,461

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    I have found my 6000 MQ to run the 200 amp machines pretty well. The 252i really likes more input power to run well at all.Even down low.. The Esab/Victor/Thermal-arc/Klutch/ etc all work very well on it. Tweco 141i/Tweco 211i are excellent on mine too.. The only machine I had a issue was the very advanced INE 33 plasma cutter.. Super smart power supply, and all sorts of setting for using on a generator.. It would not even turn on with my MQ genny.. Go figure.. It's going to come down to certain generators work excellent with Certain welding machines. I had real issue with high quality Honda, and Yamaha generators not working very well with certain Miller inverters.. You might find the 211i does way better then a 181i because of the Power factor caps in the 211i.. Same with the Esab Caddymig units. Great setups for the 6000 gennys.. It's hit and miss, and nothing is set in stone..
    Esab 252i
    Esab 2200i-TA34
    Hypertherm 65
    Klutch-140si
    Klutch ST200i
    Klutch 275i
    Thermal Arc Pee-Wee 85s
    Victor 82 (A-60)











    If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong!

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Hamlin, NY
    Posts
    692

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Josey View Post
    The Generator has no trouble powering my big transformer stick welder So I know it is putting out enough power
    Just disappointed with the Thermal Arc" Thanks
    Sorry to burst you bubble, but it has NOTHING to do with how much the generator cost, how many watts it may generate, or any fault of the Thermal Arc inverter. If you hook up any other manufacturer inverter you'll probably have the SAME problems. A simple voltmeter is not going to show you a wave form. A transformer on the other hand is rather impervious (relatively speaking in relation to inverters) of crappy power QUALITY.

    There are not my oscilloscope pictures, just a quick 5 sec google image search to show your problem.

    "Clean Power" as in your wall socket provided by your power company with multi million dollar generators, capacitors, filtering, etc.
    Name:  clean.jpeg
Views: 198
Size:  5.6 KB
    Acceptable power quality. You'll notice the wave form isn't as smooth.
    Name:  ok.jpeg
Views: 198
Size:  6.3 KB
    DIRTY power, from a crappy generator, REGARDLESS of price or wattage.
    Name:  dirty.jpeg
Views: 197
Size:  4.7 KB
    All three may be the EXACT same wattage and the EXACT same voltage, but the bottom power will probably run a transformer, the top two will run an inverter which will NOT tolerate a total harmonic distortion of usually more than 5%.
    Ryan

    Miller Multimatic 200 w/tig,spool gun,wireless foot
    Millermatic 350P w/Bernard & XR Python guns
    Miller Dynasty 350 w/Coolmate 3.5 & wireless foot
    Miller Spectrum 375 X-treme
    Optrel e684
    Miller Digital Elite x2
    Miller Weld-Mask

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Murphysboro, IL
    Posts
    163

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Quote Originally Posted by lugweld View Post
    Cost has nothing to do with quality of sine wave. Northern tool has a powerhorse line that is cheap, but is clean power. 9kw is about 700 on sale.
    Is the Powerhorse clean enough to run my PA 200ST?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    west texas
    Posts
    2,061

    Re: 181 i NOT GENERATOR COMPATABLE

    Also try running a purely resistive load like a 100w or bigger halogen or incandescent light on each line. It can help clean up those transient spikes some times.
    old Miller spectrum 625
    Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wire
    Craftsman 230amp AC/DC and WP-18V torch
    Craftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torch
    Century 115-004 HF arc stabilizer
    Home made 4 transformer spot welder
    Home made alternator welder

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
RSS | Home | Penton Media | Contact Us | Subscribe | For Advertisers | Terms of Use | Privacy Statement