MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by stioc View Post
    OK I had 10 mins to run a couple of beads when I got home from work. I found a small piece of 3/16" material...same ole 7014 rod.
    Looks better, but appears you are running too cold. 1/8 rod is heavy for 3/16 metal. What amps are you using for 1/8 rod ? Remember 7014 is a drag rod. Just smooth straight movement is all that is needed, Very little arcing movement, if any, can be used to fill the width desired.

  2. #52
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by jmarsh223 View Post
    Only 10# a day? I was a contract metal frame building welder. I myself could burn 15# a day. Granted depends on the hours worked daily and things in between.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
    .
    .
    if welder stops to clamp and align parts and tack weld it takes time. if steel all tacked ready to weld obviously you can burn more rod in a day. and depends on size of rod as there are more 3/32 rods per 10 lbs and much fewer 5/32 rods per 10 lbs
    .
    my statement that a welder can burn 10 lbs per day is what i have done before. obviously if burning big rod you can use more pounds per day. it is hard to burn 10lbs of 3/32 rod in a day

  3. #53
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    Aug 2015
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    15

    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    .
    if welder stops to clamp and align parts and tack weld it takes time. if steel all tacked ready to weld obviously you can burn more rod in a day. and depends on size of rod as there are more 3/32 rods per 10 lbs and much fewer 5/32 rods per 10 lbs
    .
    my statement that a welder can burn 10 lbs per day is what i have done before. obviously if burning big rod you can use more pounds per day. it is hard to burn 10lbs of 3/32 rod in a day
    Agreed

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

  4. #54
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    if you really want to use 6013 or 7014 they have a tendency of having slag entrapment in middle of weld in particular on weld starts using small rod
    .
    many will start arc doing a circle weave to help widen and flatten the normally cold arc start (extra heat at weld start) and then reduce the circle weaving amount to keep bead the same width as part warms up
    .
    or you can use bigger rod. 5/32 6013 at 135 amps welding 1/4 thick plate has fewer cold arc start problems than welding the same 1/4 plate at 120 amps with 1/8 rod. small rod when amps are high enough gets red hot and you cannot use more amps. you need bigger rod to use more amps
    .
    high speed drag welding is where you use a extremely big rod often a dia as thick as plate being welded like 3/16 dia rod to weld 3/16 plate and drag rod with no weave just moving extremely fast, the weld quality often is not the best but if you are just laying a bead to seal weld something you only care about speed. trying to high speed drag weld using extremely small 3/32 dia rod to weld the same 3/16 plate you will have problems with not enough heat as the small rod is limited on max amps before it gets red hot. you see more often with small rod, slag entrapped in weld and cold arc starts
    .
    as Lincoln chart shows welding 10ga roughly 1/8" thick sheetmetal they recommend using 3/16 dia rod at 210 amps...... this is true high speed sheet metal welding dragging rod with no weave at extremely high speeds
    .......you cannot high speed drag the rod weld without slag problems using too small a rod especially at arc starts
    .
    basically people confuse high speed drag welding with normal welding
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  5. #55
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    I think on that particular bead I tried the step method where you step back and then move forward again to fill the crater. I didn't know 7014 should just be dragged straight, when I do that it seems the bead is quite narrow.

    As for how many amps, well I don't know how to read or set the exact amps on this machine. For example, is it 90amps when the 3/8" wide indicator (blue line) is centered between the green lines? I assume the green lines indicate a range between perhaps 70-100?

    ---
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  6. #56
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by stioc View Post
    I think on that particular bead I tried the step method where you step back and then move forward again to fill the crater. I didn't know 7014 should just be dragged straight, when I do that it seems the bead is quite narrow.

    As for how many amps, well I don't know how to read or set the exact amps on this machine. For example, is it 90amps when the 3/8" wide indicator (blue line) is centered between the green lines? I assume the green lines indicate a range between perhaps 70-100?

    .
    .
    the numbers dont mean much and are often off a bit.
    1/8 7014 100-145amps on DC
    .
    when you burn rod in one use and break arc and last 2" of rod is red hot you are about 145 amps the max they recommend
    if you try to weld at 90 amps with 1/8 7014 rod on 1/8 thick plate it will be harder to control
    .
    most people would use 3/32 7014 at the 75 - 95 amps recommended on 1/8 plate as it is easier to control. you weave if you want a wider bead and put more heat into weld in general you do not weave and go straight and drag with big rod at high amps cause if you go slow and or weave you will burn a hole in the plate from too much heat.
    .
    in general for 10" of rod you want 5 to 10" of weld
    .
    you see cold arc starts and slag entrapment more when you fillet weld thick plate with rod way too small a diameter
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    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 02-17-2017 at 02:17 PM.

  7. #57
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by stioc View Post
    I think on that particular bead I tried the step method where you step back and then move forward again to fill the crater. I didn't know 7014 should just be dragged straight, when I do that it seems the bead is quite narrow.

    As for how many amps, well I don't know how to read or set the exact amps on this machine. For example, is it 90amps when the 3/8" wide indicator (blue line) is centered between the green lines? I assume the green lines indicate a range between perhaps 70-100?

    "Exact amps" is not really what those gauges give you. More like "repeatable setting based on what I like"

    But, when using a machine with a pointer like that - turn it all the way to the bottom and see where it points in relation to the lowest amp reading.

    Do the same at the top position. Bend the pointer as needed to match.

    Now you have a reference that's as close as you'll get with the dial you have.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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  8. #58
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    amp marking on machine dont mean much
    .
    i took a weld certification test using 1/8 7018 which normally runs 100-150 amps. i had machine at 265 amps welding vertical up. obviously the machine markings were off
    .
    it was part of test to fail any welder who believed welding machine amp markings more than how the welding rod burns and looking at weld puddle and arc.
    .
    when welding rod is orange to yellow white hot its full length you are at too high amps for the rod size. best to keep it dull red or less

  9. #59
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    amp marking on machine dont mean much
    .
    i took a weld certification test using 1/8 7018 which normally runs 100-150 amps. i had machine at 265 amps welding vertical up. obviously the machine markings were off
    .
    it was part of test to fail any welder who believed welding machine amp markings more than how the welding rod burns and looking at weld puddle and arc.
    .
    when welding rod is orange to yellow white hot its full length you are at too high amps for the rod size. best to keep it dull red or less
    Like I said: "repeatable setting based on what I like"

    I've found some off by 20-30 amps, but haven't found one off more than that yet.

    One of the school machines is off by a varying degree as we go up the scale.
    That one is just: find the setting you like, write it down so you can use it next time.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  10. #60
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    Like I said: "repeatable setting based on what I like"

    I've found some off by 20-30 amps, but haven't found one off more than that yet.

    One of the school machines is off by a varying degree as we go up the scale.
    That one is just: find the setting you like, write it down so you can use it next time.
    .
    .
    i have seen many welding machines off 100 amps. some welders got a sick sense of humor. they reset amp knob so when beginner tries to weld, the old timer is usually laughing his a s off in the corner at the beginner struggling to weld
    .
    at weld certification test they wanted to immediately fail anybody who could not read rod burning and looking at arc and puddle. normally i can tell by weld puddle in a second or 2 if amps needs adjustment. normally thats like 1/3" of weld
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 02-17-2017 at 03:37 PM.

  11. #61
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    Feb 2017
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    38

    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    If I put a DC clamp meter around the +ve lead I should be able to tell how many amps right?
    ---
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  12. #62
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    Houston, Texas
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    Jody's got some videos on youtube "Weldingtipsandtricks" explaining the purposes on the rod numbering system and how to run each rod. On one of the videos he strikes an arc with a 7014 and lays the stinger on the bench letting the rod "run" itself. I'd also recommend watching his "buzzbox Jeep bumper build"

    If you are running 6011, 6013, 7014 & 7018AC's (Lincoln's from Lowes/Home Depot) turn that thunderbolt over to AC, set the amps on the highest amp setting for that size rod, burn a 1" or so bead, turn the amp's down by 5-10 amps until you start sticking the rod, and turn it back up to the last good setting. The key to stick welding is rod angle, rod to work piece distance, and travel speed. Run high enough amps to not stick a 7018/14 and you can drag the rod with a tight arc and not have to worry about keeping your hand steady etc.

    I have a newer Hobart version of your welder, lays down metal just fine on AC.
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  13. #63
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    Re: MIG vs. Stick welding differences I've noticed

    with 6011 (and 6010) it is common to hold a arc length and cold whipping is where you vary arc length like every 1/2 second to control puddle
    .
    i should mention 1/8 6011 is rated about 70-125 amps but ability to pull a longer arc length goes down a lot with many welding machines when running with high amps, that is at 70-100 amps it is a lot easier to pull a longer arc length than at 120 amps. basically you get more arc sputtering or going out 10x more easily at 125 amps than you would at 100 amps
    .
    very much depends on welding machine. some machines have no problems pulling a long arc at high amps but other machine do have problems pulling a long arc at high amps. in general i would start using rod at middle of recommended amp range.

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