Red-Blue Face
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Thread: Red-Blue Face

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    DutchessCo. NY
    Posts
    49

    Red-Blue Face

    Hello All, I have an opportunity to buy a red-blue face 1960 sa200. Needs work guy wants 1500.Hood rusted through and no side panels. Was told it runs and welds, that I will have to see for my self. Was thinking of this as a rest project. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    2,586

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    If you're just wanting something to tinker with, a machine like that would be great. Too rich for my blood, but I don't assign the same values to the old SA welders that others do.

    Check the underside of the engine / welding generator joint for engine oil leaking. If you find some, realize your project is going to include a new bearing job on the engine. What happens is that the rear main bearing wears from the weight of the welder's armature, and when it wears enough it starts riding the seal and tearing it up. Many people see that leak and think a new rear main seal will fix it. That's almost never the case, and if it ran in this condition long enough, the crank will be beyond repair as well. Just something to keep in mind when you see an innocent little oil leak at the rear main on one of these and you're wondering how much you should pay.
    Applied Fabrications, LLC

    Mobile Welding / Mechanical Repair in VA's Piedmont & Shenandoah Valley

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Port Orchard, WA.
    Posts
    9,818

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    Weldboy what is your location? The price of SA-200s is very dependent on location. In the mid west they sell really high! Here in the north west not so much. I paid $200.00 for this 1966 Red Face.
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    Don’t pay any attention to me
    I’m just a hobbyist!

    Carl

    Dynasty 300
    V350-Pro w/pulse
    SG Spool gun
    1937 IdealArc-300
    PowerArc 200ST
    3 SA-200s
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    cntrl FL
    Posts
    838

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    Being that if it is a red/blue face and someone hasn't just put a red/blue face plate on it. Make sure the code on the generator matches the face plate to. It might be worth the 1500 but you could ask for what the bottom dollar would be, if it runs and welds and isn't ate up with to much rust. When you get the chance to check it out, check the oil level and coolant condition. Run for a good 10-15 mins to get warmed up, to see how everything works. Look for leaks at the water pump, oil leaks at the front and rear crankshaft seals at the oil pan. Switch the control dials back and forth to see if there hanging up and if they are making good contact to. Bring a handful of 1/8" and 5/32nd" rods and scrap metal to test on at max setting and bury the rod into the scrap metal a few times, then turn the heat down and run a few complete beads, to see how it reacts. Also, see if the plug outlet works with a grinder to. Youll have to pin off the idler (should be a chain hanging on the idler with a Pin on it) to get full power at the plug in.

    You should get a good idea if the machine is worth buying. Though, The Red/Blue face and Red face machines are not as easy to find like the Black face machines.
    Last edited by BYW200; 03-18-2017 at 12:08 PM.
    SA 200's 1970, 1969,1965, 1963, 1955/44,
    SA 250 1981 D152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro mig 135
    Hobart GPB 1957 258 Pipeliner, 1958 261 Mainliner
    Miller Load Bank
    Everlast ST 200
    Hobart Airforce 250

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Gladstone, MB
    Posts
    331

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    Red blue face is Canadian, early 60's, is it not?
    XMT 350 MPA
    Dynasty 280DX
    Suitcase 8RC / Optima
    Spoolmatic 30A
    Thermco Ar / C02 mixer
    Assorted O/A gear

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    DutchessCo. NY
    Posts
    49

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    Thanks Gents, Im in upstate NY and I told the guy providing everything worked like he said id go a grand-he cme back with 1250.00. Trailer needs tires.Might just do it

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    311

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    Id buy that all day, but im in south texas wher a completley roached 200 is 2500.
    68' redface
    64' redface
    78' blackface
    Squarewave 200
    Trailblazer 302
    Miller 12vs
    Millermatic 211
    Maxstar 150
    325 Xtreme
    Victor cut master 52
    Betenbender shear& brake
    Scotchman iron worker
    Wellsaw

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    ROCKVILLE ,,VA
    Posts
    344

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    like BYW200 this rare machine, red /blue tint face paid $700.00 for mine

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    253

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    where is the machine at i can kinda give ya an idea of value in that area

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    97

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    buy it because they are not making them anymore and that machine will still be welding 30 years from now. dont get cheap and lose it

    go look on ebay and see what aluminum machines are priced at or what cheapo millers are and you will be happy to only pay $1250 for a real welder even if it needs work

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    kornfield kounty IA
    Posts
    445

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    Welcome to the interweb. Location is every thing on pricing. Is this going to be your money maker, or just a hobby machine? Please note that a hood, 2 side panels and the 4 latches are going to cost some coin, and you haven't fixed or maintained anything on the machine yet. Is the rest of the machine complete and original? Can you tell if the generator has been split from the engine? You said it's on a trailer. Is it a trailer or a running gear? Any leads? Some photos would help. I have a 58,62,68,70 and 93 round barrel machines all with the flat head gas 4 bangers. The 64 is a red/blue and frankly none of them are rare or collectors to anyone except a collector, and I wouldn't use ebay as a price setting service. I'm from the Midwest and unless it were an exceptional, original, unmolested machine I wouldn't go $1250 without the rest of the tin unless its on a significant trailer or has a bunch of leads, remote. or other accessories. Good used tin with latches will run $600. From what I know about your deal I would wait a week tell him your thoughts about the missing tin, and have 10 fresh $100 bills in hand. Best of luck with your search.

    I know that a lot of guys run there machines with out the tin in place but please note that I do not run my machines with out all of the tin in place on any of my machines and that includes the Perkins powered 250Dand Perkins powered SAE400.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    253

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    63 was the last year of the blue dial
    And they didn't make a round barrel after 72 early 73 might fall with on I'm not sure on that
    The last hood I got from Jeff I wanna say was 385 ??? Shipped to my door
    I have only seen a hand full of people that run doors on the 200's
    Here I'm Texas if you didn't jump on that 1500 price tag it wouldn't be there in 2 days
    And if I am selling one here the last one I sold was a hell of a mess of a 300d that fell off a barge
    Frame was bent and motor was trashed and missing the head all the sheet metal was trashed also but it brought 1500$ no questions asked

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    cntrl FL
    Posts
    838

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    The code on the generator will tell you what it is. My 63 has the Redface plate, code 5108.
    SA 200's 1970, 1969,1965, 1963, 1955/44,
    SA 250 1981 D152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro mig 135
    Hobart GPB 1957 258 Pipeliner, 1958 261 Mainliner
    Miller Load Bank
    Everlast ST 200
    Hobart Airforce 250

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    DutchessCo. NY
    Posts
    49

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    Thanks Guys , Im in NY and it will be mostly a machine to restore and make a little coin with. My full time machine is a Ranger 250 with an Onan. I don't. Wheter or not its all original or not would have to be determined by someone other than me with a hell of a lot more knowledge about these machines. I will say this-you don't see many if any for sale here in NY. No demand and aint hardly any yankee pipeliners so that might be why you don't see them and there is no demand. I welded with one years ago and it was just smooth. Looking forward to talking to you all in the near future about this machine and learning alotfrom other experience. Thanks. I will post pics hopefully by week end.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    kornfield kounty IA
    Posts
    445

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    Quote Originally Posted by pbpimp View Post
    63 was the last year of the blue dial
    And they didn't make a round barrel after 72 early 73 might fall with on I'm not sure on that
    The last hood I got from Jeff I wanna say was 385 ??? Shipped to my door
    I have only seen a hand full of people that run doors on the 200's
    Here I'm Texas if you didn't jump on that 1500 price tag it wouldn't be there in 2 days
    And if I am selling one here the last one I sold was a hell of a mess of a 300d that fell off a barge
    Frame was bent and motor was trashed and missing the head all the sheet metal was trashed also but it brought 1500$ no questions asked
    A couple small points. 1) They made a bunch of round barrels well after the 1970's, they were called Classic I and had the F163, round all copper generator, factory alternator, canister oil filter, and electronic idler. I believe the Classic II and III had the round barrel also but a variety of power plants. The Classic I that I have is a 1993.

    2) For those of us that live north of Texas, like the OP and I, we have this stuff called white rain, it collects on the ground and other places including inside machinery that is not covered.

    3) Can you school me on why you would spend $385 for a hood if your not going to put the doors on?

    Added here. On the round barrel issue, aren't all the late model Lincoln's that aren't inverted AC machines copper wound?
    Last edited by gundog77; 03-20-2017 at 10:08 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    253

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    Out of the I'm gonna guess 75 or so rig trucks that's been at my house and all I have seen I am going to guess less that 10% have had doors.
    If I was wrong On the round barrel thing I will apologize but I still haven't seen a pic of a classic 1 with a round barrel I was looking to see if I could apologize On that
    What dose rain have to do with anything ? lol I live in burleson tx so
    Rain ain't gonna get something that stays out side for 50 years lol now salt water will kill one yes
    And the cost of it on the last point

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    kornfield kounty IA
    Posts
    445

    Re: Red-Blue Face

    No apology necessary, I was only sharing information which is what this sight is all about. Please note that the rain reference was about white rain (snow) in the machine. We get that stuff up here. As for salt water, when the white rain comes the road department puts tons of salt and salt water out. Have you seen a truck/ rust bucket from up here? LOL!

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