Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time.. - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jawslandshark View Post
    You might try taking a flap disc to that steel before welding. Clean is better, getting rid of that rust, paint and mill scale will cut down down the spatter. Good welding is clean welding, prep it right and you will get better results all the way around.
    100% correct. And I usually do grind or flap wheel the junk off.

  2. #27
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcm308 View Post
    Heres 1/8", 239 at 17.6V. A little spatter but good. Thats pushing the gun.
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    I am going to get my garage back to weld ready, so that I can give the 211i some run time, because your machine settings for the material thickness and joint design seem to be on the cold side. Did you happen to take a look at the amp meter? For this joint design, material thickness, and weld position, I'd want around 135 - 140 amps. Voltage will fall in the 17 -18 range. Your inductance setting will have an influence of the level of voltage needed. . Your spatter balls are pretty large for 1/8" material. The spatter should be very fine to non-existent , on 1/8", when you the unit dial in correctly.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Dan, when you say excessive spatter is a function not being dialed in on the voltage, is it being too high, too low, or just being too far on either side from optimum?
    Here are a couple more beads run on 1/8 using door settings and .030 wire. I'm very interested to see what settings you dial in and suggest.
    Mcm308 - not trying to hijack your thread, but if Dan is willing to help I'm all ears


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    Tweco Fabricator 211i
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  4. #29
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Jrporter, its all good. We are all here to help eachother.

    At 239 IPM I was getting 85 amps.
    I did a quickie before I left for work this morning,
    I bumped it up to 258 and got 110 amps. This is probably the hottest I'd like to be. 140 amps would be too much. So depending on joint type and position, i would be between 240 and 260 IPM for. .125, 17-18V, Inductance was set at 8 I think.

    I read somewhere for every .001 of metal, you want 1 amp up to about 1/4 thick. That would be 125 amps for 1/8th.
    .030 wire is 2 amps per inch so 250IPM is about spot on..
    This is at 258 at 17.6V,
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  5. #30
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Thanks. I totally forgot about the amps displaying immediately after welding. I'll have to check and see how high they were with the door settings. I know my welds were hot but figured that if I didn't get any burn through hotter was better than cold in terms of holding power. When I go thinner though burn through will be more of a problem and I'll need to dial in the heat more correctly.
    Tweco Fabricator 211i
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  6. #31
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Nothing wrong with being hot. Every time I stopped, I would inspect the weld first and the amp numbers would be gone..lol So now I immediately look at the machine when I let off the trigger and look at weld after..lol

  7. #32
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Yeah, the 10 seconds is hardly time for my eyes to adjust and focus enough to read the values. I'm gonna set up my phone and video so I can play back and see the actuals.
    Tweco Fabricator 211i
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  8. #33
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    I took a quick video, but don't have a way to upload, so grabbed snaps showing initial settings, readings while welding, and post weld. The during weld increased to about 100 (which seems too low for .03 wire at that speed), and I don't understand the post weld values. Any idea what is up?


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    Last edited by jrporter; 04-18-2017 at 04:16 PM.
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  9. #34
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    That last picture is your post weld readout? Im not sure, i dont know the machine well enough yet. What input voltage are you on 115 or 230V ?
    I didnt get time to play yesterday.

  10. #35
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Yes, last picture is what was held in the display for 10 secs after welding. Input voltage is close to 120V.
    I also have never paid attention to the readouts before, so was hoping someone could tell us how they work beyond what is in the manual, especially if there are some undocumented features. The bead I ran was pretty short, and the amperage was increasing up till I stopped, so maybe the final display shows something other than "max amperage reached" if the duration is very short or the amperage is increasing. I went back and looked at the video, and the weld lasted about 8 seconds. The last readout during welding was 100A and 20.3 volts. I would have thought that value would have been held for the 10 seconds post weld, but maybe it sampled the amperage and voltage when I released the trigger and the arc was dying. I'm going to video the display this weekend and run some longer beads to see if the readouts do something different. If you have the equipment to video your display I'd be interested to hear what you see during and after welding.
    Tweco Fabricator 211i
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  11. #36
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    I might be able to get some video. I am also running on 240 input so our machines are going to operate differently.

  12. #37
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Quote Originally Posted by jrporter View Post
    Dan, when you say excessive spatter is a function not being dialed in on the voltage, is it being too high, too low, or just being too far on either side from optimum?
    Here are a couple more beads run on 1/8 using door settings and .030 wire. I'm very interested to see what settings you dial in and suggest.
    Mcm308 - not trying to hijack your thread, but if Dan is willing to help I'm all ears


    Name:  Door chart 1.jpg
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    To high of a voltage for the wire speed or to low of a wire speed for the voltage can both create spatter issues. To low of an inductance setting can lead to spatter issues too. So far with an .030 wire I say that an inductance setting around 9 is good starting point. With an .035 wire and inductance setting around 8 seems to be a good starting point. This would be with C-25 shielding gas.


    Removing the mill scale from your base metal at least from the weld zone plus maybe a 1/4" past would help improve arc quality and weld puddle wet out, along with weld bead penetration into the base metal.

    If you get the machine settings dialed in hot enough on the pictured 1/8" lap joint your travel along the weld joint should be straight with the only side to side oscillation maybe being a very slight side to side wiggle. For an 1/8" horizontal lap joint I'd like to see the amperage around 120 - 130 amps. Me more than likely favoring the 130 amps.

    I've attached a couple sample horizontal lap joints constructed from 1/8" to show you what a resulting weld should look like if you get it dialed in correctly and hot enough. These welds weren't ran with my 211i.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Dan; 04-20-2017 at 03:18 PM.
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  13. #38
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    If I get out to the garage later, Ill try some 1/8 lap and see what I get. Good info.. good info. And that weld is lazer straight. Looks awesome. Im not that steady..lol

    I oscillate. Getting proper travel speeds also makes a big difference...

  14. #39
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    268 at 18 is money! Wow! More info soon..

  15. #40
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Alright, so I set up a nice clean lap joint and started with my 258 at 17.6 ,inductance at 8 settings. Here is the weld and post weld readout. Thats 95 amps at 18.4 V
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    Last edited by Mcm308; 04-20-2017 at 07:25 PM.

  16. #41
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    I did a few on 258 at 17.6 and got similar readouts. Then decided to crank it up to 268 at 18V ,what Jporter was running to see what would happen,
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  17. #42
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..


  18. #43
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    And this last one, the left side was pushing the gun, the right side was pulling it. She sounded real good buzzin those! and my recommended settings for .125 are 274 at 19.5, inductance at 8.
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    Last edited by Mcm308; 04-20-2017 at 07:46 PM.

  19. #44
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Yes those look much better - Funny how neither of ours look like Dan's though
    The settings you ended up with are pretty close to the door chart, even a little higher on voltage and speed, so maybe the chart is not too high for 1/8 steel?
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  20. #45
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    My door chart is 274 at 19.5. Those last welds were 268 at 18 so Im still lower then my door chart. Im on 230V chart side.

  21. #46
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Sorry, I had not compared the settings based on input voltage. When you said "my recommended settings..." above I thought that is what you dialed in as optimum.
    The door chart has me scratching my head - some of the settings for 115 vs 230V are identical for same wire and gage, others are different. I guess we need to twist the knobs and see what we think works best. I'm still planning on doing some more video to see if I can get my display to hold the settings after I'm done, and not show those strange numbers.
    Tweco Fabricator 211i
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  22. #47
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    During weld numbers dont really matter to me. As long as the arc sounds good and it looks good when its over. Maybe tomorrow I will increase the settings until I get up to 130-140 amps like Dan recommended and see what happens but Im still thinking thats going to be way to hot.

    Edit, Dan said 120-130. Im not far off 120. I was getting between 110-115 so thats almost there...
    Last edited by Mcm308; 04-20-2017 at 08:36 PM.

  23. #48
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    My Bernard gun is on the truck for delivery today. Ill post up some pictures next to the fusion. Ive been doing quite a bit of reading on weld quality. When I bought my machine, I got a free 11lb. Roll of the Weldcote .030 that I am using(China). I'll keep using th3 Fusion gun with the .030 but I am going to order a roll of .035 Lincoln L56 to run with the Bernard gun. In the meantime, i thought this was a good read..
    http://www.bernardwelds.com/correct-...time--p158991#

  24. #49
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcm308 View Post
    My Bernard gun is on the truck for delivery today. Ill post up some pictures next to the fusion. Ive been doing quite a bit of reading on weld quality. When I bought my machine, I got a free 11lb. Roll of the Weldcote .030 that I am using(China). I'll keep using th3 Fusion gun with the .030 but I am going to order a roll of .035 Lincoln L56 to run with the Bernard gun. In the meantime, i thought this was a good read..
    http://www.bernardwelds.com/correct-...time--p158991#
    L-56 is a quality wire, however, based on my experience this has been the best .035 that I've ran on the unit

    https://www.amazon.com/INEFIL-ER70S-...words=mig+wire

    If you've found my past thread that I started on the 211i when I first purchased my unit you know that I feel that the unit performs really well on 1/8" and thicker with a quality .035 wire.

    I was going to mention stick out today but you covered it with the Bernard article. For short arc all my machines are set up with a gun that has the contact tip extended past the nozzle by at least an 1/8". If there isn't a nozzle or contact tip available for the gun to produce this relationship I modify the nozzle length to create it.
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  25. #50
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    Re: Fabricator 211i , Having a real hard time..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcm308 View Post
    During weld numbers dont really matter to me. As long as the arc sounds good and it looks good when its over. Maybe tomorrow I will increase the settings until I get up to 130-140 amps like Dan recommended and see what happens but Im still thinking thats going to be way to hot.

    Edit, Dan said 120-130. Im not far off 120. I was getting between 110-115 so thats almost there...
    Since I can't run my unit right now, I've been throwing you guys out some amperage numbers to help you guys get that machine dialed in closer to were it needs to be for the material thickness, joint design and weld position. 130 amps isn't going to be to hot for a 1/8" horizontal lap joint. You just need to practice more on increasing your rate of travel along the weld joint. As I pointed out before if you get the unit dialed in hot enough on an 1/8" horizontal lap you should be able to travel along straight with basically no side to side motion required. Especially if you switch to an .035 wire.

    You guys are also running a higher output voltage ( load voltage) then I 'd be shooting for. At 130 amps, with C-25, I'm looking for the output voltage to be in the low 17's. Depending on the inductance level , the voltage may even drop into the 16's.
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