Dual shield welding........Why????? - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    when the erecting contractor is paying upwards of 100.00 bucks an hour per highly skilled welder he wants as much high quality weld metal as he can get. column splices and heavy moment plates can be knocked out in no time with this process.
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  2. #27
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    IN your world.
    We didnt "discover' mixes until the middle to late eighties. Dual shield was Trojan and a Colt 45 in case her husband got home early............

  3. #28
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav129 View Post
    Although not in Pulse mode, we preferred to use the Millermatic 350p over the Millermatic 252 any day of the week for FCAW-GS. We would hit the 60% duty cycle on the 252.
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  4. #29
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by CEP View Post
    We ran dual shield, splicing these 10-feet diameter X 1-inch wall piling in the Columbia River gorge.
    Do you have a video of you riding the bike loop-the-loop inside the pipe? Orbital welding ...
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  5. #30
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Isn't dual shield a little more forgiving than solid wire on rusty/dirty metal, in the same way that 6010/11 is more forgiving than 7018? (I'm not a MIG guy, but I got that feeling the one or two times I used it.)

  6. #31
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    I'll bet he does Dick.
    Jerry
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  7. #32
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    What about the polarity of dual shield? EP? Like SMAW?

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  8. #33
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Something that people are missing is that dual shield historically had best charpy impact test values. From what I understand it still has. It isn't important until you are involved in structures that have sudden loads at low temperatures. I know that in Canada this was a big deal and years later this caught on in California for that extra earthquake protection. Things given an steady load were fine but give them an impact load like an earthquake and welds fracture. The charpy is expressed in foot pounds at different temps. The machine to test is a big sledge hammer on a hinge like a clock pendulum. You chill the sample to the required temp then quickly clamp it in the vice at the bottom and release the hammer.

  9. #34
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldendum View Post
    Do you have a video of you riding the bike loop-the-loop inside the pipe? Orbital welding ...
    That picture was taken down river at General Cascade shipyard in Portland Oregon. I worked there, setting a 9260 crawler crane on a barge. Over seen the shipyard welders weld down the deck winch, deck sheaves, and fairleads.
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  10. #35
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    From what I was told years ago, Dual Shield was originally designed to be a replacement for SMAW to reduce waste (stubs) and starts/stops. But factor in the cost of gas, machines, and the lack of portability, it's not a cost effective replacement. SMAW still has it's purpose. But I'll use Dual Shield over SMAW any chance I get. Probably because I haven't done SMAW in many years, and if I were to give it a whirl today, it would probably look like bird ****.
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  11. #36
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan23 View Post
    What about the polarity of dual shield? EP? Like SMAW?

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  12. #37
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav129 View Post
    From what I was told years ago, Dual Shield was originally designed to be a replacement for SMAW to reduce waste (stubs) and starts/stops. But factor in the cost of gas, machines, and the lack of portability, it's not a cost effective replacement. SMAW still has it's purpose. But I'll use Dual Shield over SMAW any chance I get. Probably because I haven't done SMAW in many years, and if I were to give it a whirl today, it would probably look like bird ****.
    I would respectfully disagree. With the availability of suitcases and a hundred feet of gas hose it is just as portable as a SMAW setup. Add into that the fact that you arent paying a welder to stop every 8-10" and you are well ahead of the game.

    FCAW-G is miles ahead of SMAW in deposition rates as well.

    A you stated, SMAW still has its place and i do agree with that. SMAW will not be going anywhere anytime soon. There will never be a "one process for all" that eliminates the other manual processes for good.
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  13. #38
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    What gas or mixture do you run with DS?
    To love is to weld

  14. #39
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by WildWestWelder View Post
    What gas or mixture do you run with DS?
    I've always used tri-mix on jobsites.

  15. #40
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    I've always ran either 75/25 or 100% co2 with dual shield.
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  16. #41
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by WildWestWelder View Post
    What gas or mixture do you run with DS?
    that depends on the exact wire you are running. All of the ones I am familiar with use either 100% CO2 or 75% AR/ 25% CO2 mixture
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  17. #42
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    I've ran some dualshield at a shop a worked at a while back and I don't remember ever grinding mill scale.
    My question is, Now that I'm running my own shop, if I have a staircase to build (or some beam work) can I get away with welding right through the millsacale? That would save me a TON of time on some jobs instead of grinding the mill scale and mig welding.

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  18. #43
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoort View Post
    I've ran some dualshield at a shop a worked at a while back and I don't remember ever grinding mill scale.
    My question is, Now that I'm running my own shop, if I have a staircase to build (or some beam work) can I get away with welding right through the millsacale? That would save me a TON of time on some jobs instead of grinding the mill scale and mig welding.
    Sure, I don't grind millscale when using hard wire, certainly not with mill scale.

  19. #44
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBFA View Post
    I've always used tri-mix on jobsites.

    tri-mix? never heard of anyone using tri-mix. not even stainless DS, it still recommends 75/25


    fwiw. in the past i always used 75/25. now i use co2 for almost every thing. i have a 330cf size tank with a fill station on it and then a couple 10# and 20# tanks for each welder. super simple for field work, top off a 10# tank and it lasts a day.
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  20. #45
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoort View Post
    I've ran some dualshield at a shop a worked at a while back and I don't remember ever grinding mill scale.
    My question is, Now that I'm running my own shop, if I have a staircase to build (or some beam work) can I get away with welding right through the millsacale? That would save me a TON of time on some jobs instead of grinding the mill scale and mig welding.
    Last structural steel shop I worked at used Hobart Fabcor 86R metal cored wire and we ran it over some pretty heavy mill scale with out any problems. It sprays on really smooth and there's no slag to deal with. It leaves quite a few silicon islands that need to be removed before any coating but they come off real easy with a light pass with a needle scaler. Deposition rates are considerably higher than with dual shield.

    The only down side with using it is that it's pretty much limited to flat and horizontal (unless you've got a more sophisticated power source that can pulse). If you have the capabilities to flip what you're building around so you can do all the welding flat or horizontal you ought to look into giving it a test drive.

  21. #46
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by xryan View Post
    CEP, did you ride your Schwinn to work that day?
    Haha!!

    You want the flux core because the flux burns out the impurities in the metal. Depending on the shielding gas being used. You'll burn a lot hotter and get better penetration. With straight CO2 that's best for outside welding because it's heavier than air we weld all the time in 15+ mph winds. We still pass X-ray and UT along with being able to weld more in the same period of time.
    Short arc mig is not used in most structural welding because it will not bond the weld joint like flux
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  22. #47
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    The thicker the plate the more heat you need. Steel melts around 2800 deg. The temperature of a flux core weld puddle is between 5000-7000 degrees depending on the setup. More than enough heat to melt the base metals.
    The weld is usually stronger than the base metals.
    “I'm going to do the thing that God put Galen Beasley on this Earth to do:
    Have Salon quality hair and weld.
    Nothing like a good cup of coffee and the smell of 6010 burning in the morning.
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  23. #48
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Quote Originally Posted by tracymobilecnc View Post
    tri-mix? never heard of anyone using tri-mix. not even stainless DS, it still recommends 75/25


    fwiw. in the past i always used 75/25. now i use co2 for almost every thing. i have a 330cf size tank with a fill station on it and then a couple 10# and 20# tanks for each welder. super simple for field work, top off a 10# tank and it lasts a day.
    Now that I think about it, I've always been using 9 chrome and 2.25 chrome, which could be why. This was all code welding in boilers, welding the headers. So everything was preheated to 450-500 degrees. Not sure if that makes the difference. I just weld what they tell to me weld with what they tell me to use, or else I gets the hose again.

  24. #49
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    Re: Dual shield welding........Why?????

    Did you see it? In CEP's piling pictures there's a banana seat Schwin in the left one.
    Ryan

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