Klutch 220Si Users Thread
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  1. #1
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    Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Wanted to start a thread for the Klutch 220Si multi-process welder. Please share your likes, dislikes, mods, .......
    Here is a note from Brand X copied from the ESAB thread. Brand X, I hope you don't mind me copying this but it is a great start for this thread.

    FROM Brand X
    .030-035 on the spool-gun for aluminum. I did run some .023 S-bronze wire with it too.. That's a pretty good showing for it.. Drive roller has a bit of wobble,, but does not seem to cause any issues feeding wire.. I had way less issues using this gun, then the one that came with the Tweco 211i.. Machine dials in way easier.. The spool-gun layout on the machine is way better too.. You can leave the stock mig bun plugged in when using the spool-gun.. Just put a 25 dinse on the spool-gun instead of a lug.. Then you only have to connect the gas Line, and contactor to machine, and go..

    Since I bought my machine out of the reman the roller on it was a .023 solid, and .030 knurled..(should run .035 ok, but I did not try it yet) I tried getting the correct rollers from NT, (Like my 140i came with) but was more hassle then it was worth.. I ended up with this .030/.040 solid wire roller from e-bay, and it covers .030-.035 wire just fine... Markings go in on this roller, Which is weird, and exact opposite of normal setups. Not a big deal, but just have to double check what groove you are in.. I am sure there are other ones on Ebay that work, but this one had info on the size of the roller. Perfect match for the Klutch..zero run-out with it.. i paid $470.00 for my Klutch, and got a year of hotline included. Great Stick/Mig/aluminum welder. In case you missed it,,pretty much think they come from here.. Not listed on the site, but everything point to it, from the plasma, and stick tig units.The AU WIA is a super fancy model of it, but i am OK with the generic model (Sweet running unit as is)

    http://www.hugongwelds.com/index.aspx
    http://www.welding.com.au/assets/doc...eet_3:2015.pdf

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/182042857165...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
    Last edited by Brand X; 05-31-2017 at 09:48 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    253305 $50.00 off code, and if you are in the Hotline club $550.00 new.. With a spool-gun, 3 year warranty.. Lot of machine for that..
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  3. #3
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    I have a 140si. It's a nice little plain jane mig. I think it has the same gun as the 220si. The only problem I've had is the trigger wires getting stressed while working at odd angles. I kept thinking I had a bad ground until I realized what it was. I popped it open, fixed it, no more problems. I think I'll find a flex neck in the future to avoid it inevitably happening again. I only use it occasionally, but it seems to be pretty well built for it's use. I assume the 220si must be similar.

  4. #4
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Weldalittle View Post
    I assume the 220si must be similar.
    Just about a 100 more amps, and lot more voltage,, Same case/gun/etc, but with a stick mode..The 140i a real nice machine too,, $329.99 with the code.. $274.98 for the reman... The 140i is a close as you are going to get to a Lincoln SP 125/135 Plus in the area of arc starts..Just excellent with better wetout too..

    Ran my 220si on my 6000 genny today... Kicks butt. Like 200 mig amps solid, and good for at least 150 amps stick without throwing the breaker. Used CO2 also, and it runs it very nice...The genny is at 4000 plus ft in altitude, so not really getting full power out of the 11HP Honda. (MQ-6000) Little bit better then my Esab Caddymig 200 would do..(perfect arc starts too) Impressive machine and maybe better then most of the big boys. IMO..I am a real fan, and Jim with all his Hobart/Esab, Lincoln. Tweco, Thermal arc machines is also one too..


    Added a electrode holder tonight..
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  5. #5
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brand X View Post
    Just about a 100 more amps, and lot more voltage,, Same case/gun/etc, but with a stick mode..The 140i a real nice machine too,, $329.99 with the code.. $274.98 for the reman... The 140i is a close as you are going to get to a Lincoln SP 125/135 Plus in the area of arc starts..Just excellent with better wetout too..

    Ran my 220si on my 6000 genny today... Kicks butt. Like 200 mig amps solid, and good for at least 150 amps stick without throwing the breaker. Used CO2 also, and it runs it very nice...The genny is at 4000 plus ft in altitude, so not really getting full power out of the 11HP Honda. (MQ-6000) Little bit better then my Esab Caddymig 200 would do..(perfect arc starts too) Impressive machine and maybe better then most of the big boys. IMO..I am a real fan, and Jim with all his Hobart/Esab, Lincoln. Tweco, Thermal arc machines is also one too..


    Added a electrode holder tonight..
    I was at first just using the 140i for a beater throw around flux core unit for 6 or 8 months,then had a autobody job come up I wanted to do in my new carport a couple hundred feet from my house have it on a cart now with c25 and 023 really excellent on 18 -20 sheet metal will up to an 1/8 ,quick easy setup and nice hot start ....Klutch stuff great bang for the dollar..there reman stuff is a real deal
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  6. #6
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Weldalittle View Post
    I have a 140si. It's a nice little plain jane mig. I think it has the same gun as the 220si. The only problem I've had is the trigger wires getting stressed while working at odd angles. I kept thinking I had a bad ground until I realized what it was. I popped it open, fixed it, no more problems. I think I'll find a flex neck in the future to avoid it inevitably happening again. I only use it occasionally, but it seems to be pretty well built for it's use. I assume the 220si must be similar.
    When I first got my 140 I had a problem with the gun it was something in the trigger a simple fix don't even remember exactly what it was
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  7. #7
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    I don't own one yet but have really been interested in them. Does anyone know what back end the the mig gun will interchange with? I tried the Lincoln on the 140 at the store from their displays and it didn't match. I really like having a 15ft gun.
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    It's a Tweco 2/4 15ft gun is really pushing the factory drive motor.12 max (IMO) I would not run a 15 on a Tweco 181 either. The 211i has a much beefier motor, and no problem with a 15 ft..

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  9. #9
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    I bought mine back in November, finally got around to running a 50 amp circuit back in March and tested it out. It worked great running 6011, 7014 and fluxcore, but I was only making test welds. Have not had time to mess with it much sense, unfortunately. I agree with the sentiment, it is a great starter kit for someone to get into welding, IMHO. I'd even go so far as to say its a better deal than the HF 180 mig in that you get a stick welder and a spoolgun, to "add" both of those to the HF 180 would be more than the cost of the 220SI when its on sale and even then, you'd have to mod the spoolgun and the HF mig unit, while the Klutch is setup to work with the spoolgun. I think I paid $529.99 (plus tax) after the $20 off of $100+ purchase coupon card Northern sends out monthly. I do not think it has been on sale that cheap since the time I bought it.

    Although not quite as good of a deal, Eastwood offers essentially the same unit, but with digital readouts and instead of the spoolgun, it includes a Tig torch. I am OK without the digital readouts, to add the tig to the Klutch since it is much less than adding the spoolgun to an already more expensive unit (Eastwood's equivalent), even when its on sale. However, the one spec that does not seem to line up with the Eastwood being a simple re-badging of the Klutch unit is that they state the stick/tig welder has a max output of 170 amp vs. the spec on the Klutch which is 140 amp. But that got me thinking that perhaps the spec for the Klutch is wrong, when I was testing my welder in stick mode, it seemed to be hotter than what I calculated the settings to be, anyone know if the Klutch's stick/tig actually maxes out at 140 amp or higher? Anyone know what the amp out put is on the minimum setting? I have gen'd up a rough chart for stick welding settings, but it assumes a 140 amp output at the maximum setting and 30 amp output at the minimum setting (forgot if that came from Eastwood's or Northern's website). Anyone with more definite information would be appreciated.

    Paul

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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    I measured over 180 amps stick output.. I have mine on a 20 amp breaker, and will not pop off on mig.. Might on full stick output, but not on mig. Have a 60 amp, and 100 amp setup if needed...It's good on power input..About the same stick amp draw as any modern small inverter stick machine.

    Eastwood is not the same machine.(might be good) HF machine is piss poor quality overall. Not in the same planet as the Klutch.. Tig on the Klutch is not that hot with no lift-arc.. I would buy something else if I wanted a decent tig unit.

    Does not mean they are not made by the same company, but layout is different.

    http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-mp200i.html
    Last edited by Brand X; 06-05-2017 at 11:04 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Thank you, Brand X. I thought the amp output was hotter than what it should have been, assuming the top output was 140 A like the website says it is. I thought it was just me until I saw Eastwood indicated the output is 170 amp. I still think they come from the same assembly line as the specs are almost the same, yes there's some difference in layout (I think the ground is on one side of the EW and the opposite side for the Klutch) and the EW comes with digital readouts, but the general specs appear to be close enough that the internals could be the same for all I know, the only difference is that the stick/tig output was listed as higher for the EW than the Klutch.

    I only had one 220V outlet, and that was for my mill/drill and it is "only" 20A. I was using it to run the heater in my workshop, so I needed to run a dedicated 30 amp for that anyway, so I ran the 30 amp for the heater and the 50 amp for the welder (I also have a 1980's vintage Craftsman AC/DC welder that my dad gave me, for all I know it may draw 50 amps, the owners manual only says that it "needs" a 50 amp breaker, not sure that it actually pulls anywhere near that, though) all at once. Its a task that I have been putting off. I was also going to run a 30 amp 120V circuit for my Cebora made, Daytona Pocket Turbo Mig, but seeing how well the Klutch works, I might just get rid of the Cebora unit. I just don't have the patience to deal with the Cebora anymore.

    I did not mean to compare the HF welder to the Klutch in regard to quality, only that the HF's lower price may be enticing to a new weldor, but seeing what you get for a little over twice more (but still less $ than anything else in its class) the Klutch is still a better deal, IMHO, for a hobbiest whose starting out welding than the HF. I agree that the Tig is probably not the best, but I am thinking it might be enough for a small amount of stainless welding that I will be doing for a resto project I have. I don't have to worry about getting tri-gas and only using a small amount of it, or storing stainless stick rods (I think they are all low-hi and need to be stored in an oven) or getting a reel of expensive no-gas SS Fluxcore. For less than $100, I can't really go wrong with the Tig torch and giving it a try.

    Paul

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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Stainless rods don't need a oven, but the dual-shield wire might need recon if stored wrong.

    The tig starting on a copper block/etc will get you by with the Klutch.. Just not ideal compared to a Tweco in that size..I could careless on that option..I wanted a excellent tig, and stick unit.. Klutch fits the bill perfect.. Being able to run on a 6000 watt genny was what i was after. It does great there. I would have to look into the eastwood to know who build it.. About 1000 companies make stuff over there, so doubt it's them.. The Blue Demon line of stick tig machines are out of that company, and offer some nice upgrades to the Klutch ST-200i 120/240 power, meters but 110/160 amp layout..
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  13. #13
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brand X View Post
    ... About 1000 companies make stuff over there...
    A few years back I saw part of a market research study by a Chinese company that said that there were about 600 some companies making welders (which was down from prior years). Of course that's a broad description, but there must be dozens and dozens making welders of this class. Study said some companies were beginning to go more up-scale to survive, outfits like Shanghai WTL (Thermal Arc stuff) and Jasic.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Just received my 220Si - reconditioned. Looks like I have a gas leak inside the unit. The gas pressure drops quickly when I turn off the tank valve and little gas flowing out of the MIG torch (using separate flow meter at the MIG nozzle). Anybody had a look at the inside of the welder? Is the gas solenoid soldered on the board or are separate wires used? Trying to determine how many of the screws need to be removed to get the cover off. The screws on the handle are really torqued tight - looks like an impact wrench will be required to get them out. Do those screws need to be removed?
    Thanks

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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    top handle screws need to come out two by power cable in the rear too.. Also some under the front voltage panel,but i did it without removing those last time.. Hard time on that panel, so I did it without removing them.. valve is not on a board. (Or a large one anyway..) This is the 140si, but the same layout..You will have to pry the front, and rear covers out, and lift on the top cover to get things to clear..There is a trick to it..
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    Last edited by Brand X; 06-09-2017 at 12:04 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brand X View Post
    top handle screws need to come out two by power cable in the rear too.. Also some under the front voltage panel,but i did it without removing those last time.. Hard time on that panel, so I did it without removing them.. valve is not on a board. (Or a large one anyway..) This is the 140si, but the same layout..You will have to pry the front, and rear covers out, and lift on the top cover to get things to clear..There is a trick to it..
    Thanks dude,
    Your photo tells me what I wanted to find out on the inside.
    So the solenoid is part of the input connector. So if I'm leaking, there are no other connections after the input connector. I was hoping there might be a hose to the solenoid with a bad connection. I'll write NT to see if they want me to ship the whole unit back or just open it up and try a parts swap.

  17. #17
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Probably a piece of something in the valve. Undo the fitting inside the wire feed compartment, and the gas line hose at the back fitting.. Hit the trigger to open the valve, and blow out with compressed air. See if something is stuck there there Flip the wire feed lever up, so not to feed wire too.. Maybe blow, and click the trigger a few times too..
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  18. #18
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brand X View Post
    Probably a piece of something in the valve. Undo the fitting inside the wire feed compartment, and the gas line hose at the back fitting.. Hit the trigger to open the valve, and blow out with compressed air. See if something is stuck there there Flip the wire feed lever up, so not to feed wire too.. Maybe blow, and click the trigger a few times too..
    I think the solenoid itself is leaking vs the valve not closing completely. If I remove the hose on the inside of the cover (self sealing quick disconnect) I can still hear the leak inside the welder (with the welder power off). But I'm going to pop the cover anyway just to be sure.

  19. #19
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Not saying it is safe electrically but if one could use soapy spray like dawn dish soap and water mix with out getting electrocuted or shorting out machine then would that soapy solution pose any problems?
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brand X View Post
    It's a Tweco 2/4 15ft gun is really pushing the factory drive motor.12 max (IMO) I would not run a 15 on a Tweco 181 either. The 211i has a much beefier motor, and no problem with a 15 ft..

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/201781140469...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
    Nonsense. I run 15 footers from HTP in a 140T and a 211 transformer( and a 2400 and MM200 oldie)4 whips total.I heard all the "not recommended BS" over and over. BS it is.I also don't take care to keep the whips straight etc etc. Most people are clueless as to how to CORRECTLY adjust the tensioner and hesitant to change out tips and liners.Toss the ground on the floor.Make sure the tension is slipping when you point the "dead" gun at the bench. Tighten until it just begins to curl the wire up while it feeds against the bench....back it off a tad. That's the correct resistance to the driver.You'll never have a problem if done that way.NO. Not just my machines. 6-8 guys( dude its killer having that long torch man) have bought those whips and put on different machines" that can't handle a 15 footer" using this advice. Nary a problem
    Last edited by Bonzoo; 06-10-2017 at 02:07 PM.

  21. #21
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Just going by some info from some of the top welding engineers at Hobart.. From the old days too. I will defer to your info, because You obviously have much more technical Knowledge on Motor drive load specs then any of those guys will ever have or had..
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  22. #22
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WeldMore View Post
    I think the solenoid itself is leaking vs the valve not closing completely. If I remove the hose on the inside of the cover (self sealing quick disconnect) I can still hear the leak inside the welder (with the welder power off). But I'm going to pop the cover anyway just to be sure.
    Well problem found but not solved. Gas is leaking at the input to the solenoid assembly. I am assuming the leak is where the outside coupling mounts to the solenoid. I could not get the solenoid assembly out. Could not remove the female coupling on the outside of the welder. I backed the inside nut out so the solenoid assembly could be moved towards the back panel and the outside nut would be free to rotate. Then clamped the inside nut and tried to loosen the outside coupling. It just would not budge.
    Name:  Bubbles at solenoid input.JPG
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  23. #23
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Well problem found and solved (at least for the solenoid gas leak). I removed the solenoid and put teflon tape on the threads into the solenoid valve. Removing the valve was pretty straight forward .
    Back out the nut inside the welder so you can push the solenoid back. Then the coupling on the outside of the back will clear the indent that prevents it from turning.
    To loosen the out side coupling grap hold of the solenoid assembly and use a wrench on the coupling. I had to use a (very light duty) impact wrench to break it loose. But there was no teflon tape on the threads then. It should be easier next time.
    Now the second problem is the actual air flow thru the MIG gun. There is definitely something causing a restriction in the gun assembly.
    NT is sending me a new gun.
    Kudos to Northern Tool Welder Helpline (www.ntwelderhelp.com). I emailed them Sunday night (yesterday), they responded Monday morning and sent the gun Monday afternoon (today). You just can't beat that level of support.
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Look at the Liner end, and see if it's stopping the gun from going in all the way? Is the gun lock screw fitting into the gun pin as it should? n ot much room for error, or low gas flow happens..Does the spool gun flow Normal when plugged into the fitting?
    Last edited by Brand X; 06-12-2017 at 07:09 PM.
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  25. #25
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    Re: Klutch 220Si Users Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brand X View Post
    Look at the Liner end, and see if it's stopping the gun from going in all the way? Is the gun lock screw fitting into the gun pin as it should? n ot much room for error, or low gas flow happens..Does the spool gun flow Normal when plugged into the fitting?
    Thanks for the suggestion. I did check the connection and then removed the gun from the welder and checked the gun separately. If I have the MIG gun disconnected from the welder and I try to blow air back thru the MIG gun output (with the nozzle removed) the air flow is very restricted. If I do exactly the same thing with the spool gun the air flows freely.
    The new gun should do the trick.

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