E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen - Page 4
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  1. #76
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    Re: E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen

    Quote Originally Posted by HT2-4956 View Post
    For f*cks sake man, just quit. All your doing is muddying up the water.
    Whoa there. Don't go sideways on me.

    Note the hydrogen amounts compared to carbons in mineral oil.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_alkanes
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  2. #77
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    Re: E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    Whoa there. Don't go sideways on me.

    Note the hydrogen amounts compared to carbons in mineral oil.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_alkanes
    Sorry man, it's just that you have a way of going off on these nuclear physicist level tangents in some of these threads that just makes my head hurt.

    PS: And for the record....I didn't "go sideways", I got pear shaped.

  3. #78
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    Re: E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen

    Quote Originally Posted by HT2-4956 View Post
    Sorry man, it's just that you have a way of going off on these nuclear physicist level tangents in some of these threads that just makes my head hurt.

    PS: And for the record....I didn't "go sideways", I got pear shaped.
    The tangents might be really interesting if they were for the purpose of simplification and/or clarification.

    Succinct and accurate is a valuable writing style.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
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    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  4. #79
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    Re: E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen

    WARNING

    In order to insure the continued good health and safety of others in the area please double check your speed and direction of rotation before going off on any Tangents.
    Last edited by HT2-4956; 04-30-2018 at 12:57 PM.

  5. #80
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    Re: E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    The tangents might be really interesting if they were for the purpose of simplification and/or clarification.

    Succinct and accurate is a valuable writing style.
    Indeed...there's a lot to be said for simplicity.

  6. #81
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    Re: E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen

    To the op: Bob moffat happened to address this issue just yesterday with the "flaming dragon" 8045

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  7. #82
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    Re: E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen

    Quote Originally Posted by One1 View Post
    To the op: Bob moffat happened to address this issue just yesterday with the "flaming dragon" 8045
    I did watch that yesterday when he published it, but this is slightly different. My original question was why 6010/6011 is used for a root pass in situations where low-hydrogen welds are required, specifically on pipeline work where they do the root pass with 6010 and fill/cap with 7018.

    This is using a low-hydrogen rod for the root pass also, so this is slightly different, albeit solving the same problem most likely in regard to not having hydrogen in the root.

    Throughout this thread it was explained by various people how the heat from the succeeding passes bakes out the hydrogen, and that another attribute which is a plus is ductility. The ductility might be more important than the hydrogen, that I don't know.

    The above video is using low-hydrogen rod for the root, opposed to a high-hydrogen rod for the root.

    The video doesn't address the same issue, but a similar resolution where hydrogen is not desirable. I was mainly thinking about the cases where the high-hydrogen cellulose rod is used purposely as the root of a low-hydrogen weld. Hopefully that makes sense, not trying to nitpick, but to point out the similarity and difference. Case in point is that 8045 is not the standard used for most pipeline work, AFAIK. I could be wrong, but I have been under the impression that most pipeline work for low-hydrogen uses a 6010 root pass.

    Alan

  8. #83
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    Re: E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen

    Again I reiterate my ignorant theory:

    In the first pass of a pipe weld shape, without blowing holes, is priority one. 6010 will blast away any contaminants, replace them with sound, very ductile steel. It will also deposit some unwanted hydrogen, known to migrate to the surface of a weld.

    We are unconcerned with hydrogen that finds its way to the inside face of a pipe weld. We aren't concerned with the hydrogen that finds its way to the face of a first pass on a pipe joint, it'll get cooked away. The very thin surfaces joined by the root pass will also get cooked twice more to hundreds of degrees hotter than needed to drive off hydrogen. That which remains will be dispersed throughout the weld. It will not form crack faces.

    We then follow with at least two passes of low hydrogen heated to surface of the Sun temperatures.

    I'd bet there isn't enough hydrogen left to be a concern.

    Willie
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  9. #84
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    Re: E6010/E6011 for root pass and the effects of hydrogen

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Again I reiterate my ignorant theory:

    In the first pass of a pipe weld shape, without blowing holes, is priority one. 6010 will blast away any contaminants, replace them with sound, very ductile steel. It will also deposit some unwanted hydrogen, known to migrate to the surface of a weld.

    We are unconcerned with hydrogen that finds its way to the inside face of a pipe weld. We aren't concerned with the hydrogen that finds its way to the face of a first pass on a pipe joint, it'll get cooked away. The very thin surfaces joined by the root pass will also get cooked twice more to hundreds of degrees hotter than needed to drive off hydrogen. That which remains will be dispersed throughout the weld. It will not form crack faces.

    We then follow with at least two passes of low hydrogen heated to surface of the Sun temperatures.

    I'd bet there isn't enough hydrogen left to be a concern.

    Willie
    And remember, none of this matters very much if the material isn't crack sensitive to begin with. That's why some pipes can be welded fully with xx10 rods.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

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