E6011 Keeps snuffing out! - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    I have a 160A Amica ARC-160D inverter welder and have the same problem with 6011.. Not only that but the 6011 rods stick like crazy and impossible to keep the arc going plus rods catch on fire.. I'll stick with 6013 and 7018AC rods as they seem decent and I am only a backyard hobby welder.. Nothing mission critical being done here.. I am running 3/32" rods right now and plan on trying 1/8" 6013's next.. Good luck!

  2. #27
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raybonz View Post
    I have a 160A Amica ARC-160D inverter welder and have the same problem with 6011.. Not only that but the 6011 rods stick like crazy and impossible to keep the arc going plus rods catch on fire.. I'll stick with 6013 and 7018AC rods as they seem decent and I am only a backyard hobby welder.. Nothing mission critical being done here.. I am running 3/32" rods right now and plan on trying 1/8" 6013's next.. Good luck!
    .
    usually at certain amp ranges i can get 6011 and even 6010 to work on my inverter dragging rod. not too hot and not too cold amps and use correct rod size. for example 3/8 plate use 5/32 rod not 3/32 or even 1/8 rod
    .
    sure some rod brands allow a longer arc length and other 6011 rods are almost like 6010 and are harder to use without sputtering arc. many inverters actually have very high open circuit voltage often over 90 volts but its only for a split second to reignite a hot rod brought back close to hot metal without touching normally
    .
    basically many are designing welding machines so you cannot use a long arc with stick or tig. when tig arc goes out fast you dont loose shielding if you keep cup close to weld. if you pull up 3/8" many arc just goes out. on a machine that can long arc stick rod like 6010 if used for tig you can often pull a 1/2" long tig arc with of course bad argon shielding
    .
    of course better machines have a 6010 mode or plug you select what you want long arc ability or only short arc

  3. #28
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    I know a guy who swears by the old Airco Easyarc 6011C rods. They are now made by Lincoln Electric and called Murex 6011C. This guy will not use either of the other two Lincoln 6011s. Too bad they only come in 50 lb. boxes these days.
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  4. #29
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by SquirmyPug View Post
    I've taught lots of guys how to weld. If you're going to school to learn soon, then please just leave the 6010/6011 alone until you get a machine that burns it well. It's easier to teach someone that has almost no knowledge than someone who knows wrong information.

    Get lots of practice with tig and 7018 if you're able to practice correctly and improve as you go. The internet can help a lot, reading here and watching good videos on YouTube can really help you get ready for the real thing. Myself and others here on WW have helped guys learning, and I'm sure would be happy to help you. When you're ready, start a thread for your practice. Post your machine and settings, your electrodes, amperage, argon CFH if your tig welding, material type, and I'm sure there is other information I'm not thinking of now. And also take lots of pictures, pictures can help a lot with diagnosing issues with welds.
    I wanted to reply and eat some humble pie...as they say...I was running some beads of E6011, 3/32 (Forney) and 1/8" (Fleetwood 180) on 1/4" plate. I also have some squares of 1/4" plate about 4"x4", I welded a couple T-joints with E6011, and after I used E7018 (Excalibur) in both 3/32" and 1/8" and filled over the top of the fillet.

    The small 4"x4" T-joints were much rustier, sitting outside for about 10 years, but the 6011 did burn through and fuse well...wasn't the prettiest nor was it the cleanest, I realized later I could have turned the amps down to eliminate some, as 6011 doesn't need as much amps as 7018. I did use about 65% on the Arc Force...the point is, when I switched back over to E7018 the weld was just easier to run, was smoother, was cleaner and really just more pleasing to use.

    I think I'm better off sticking with 7018, and maybe you're right...maybe my inverter just doesn't run it very well and I should not try to force the issue, kind of the advice you were giving to Mark (Mmock4).

    Growing up in the 60s and 70s, I don't mind eating some Humble Pie once in a while...

    I did order some Hobart 1/16" E7018 and when they get here I want to try welding some thin plate and see how they will do...

  5. #30
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldendum View Post
    I know a guy who swears by the old Airco Easyarc 6011C rods. They are now made by Lincoln Electric and called Murex 6011C. This guy will not use either of the other two Lincoln 6011s. Too bad they only come in 50 lb. boxes these days.
    That guy could be me, That stuff will run on any machine, period. the stabilizers they use in the flux coating are designed for low voltage buzzboxes, on a good DC machine 1/8' will run at 65 amps easy and still focus the arc. I use tons of the stuff to repair galvanized toilet paper on irrigation equipment with good results.

  6. #31
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Hang on a sec...withou me reading the whole damn thing.
    This is 1/8 6011 going after 3/8 plate at 85-90-100 amps ? You running this thing on the 110 side ?
    3/8 plate and 1/8" 6011 I'd be smoking along about 130-140 on this blue Chinesium inverter.

  7. #32
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzoo View Post
    Hang on a sec...withou me reading the whole damn thing.
    This is 1/8 6011 going after 3/8 plate at 85-90-100 amps ? You running this thing on the 110 side ?
    3/8 plate and 1/8" 6011 I'd be smoking along about 130-140 on this blue Chinesium inverter.
    Running on 220 Mr.Bonzoo, but I can certainly give it a try at that amperage. I just pulled the amperage numbers out of a reference guide. This is a pad of beads however so don’t need extra deep penetration, just to be able to pull the puddle from one side to the other. Lol
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  8. #33
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    6011 is definitely harder to run on my inverter welder however I keep trying and running around 105 amps on 1/8" rod I have managed to get a few beads done.. It is doable just not easy.. I tried whip and pause method.. 6013 and 7018AC run well on my inverter welder.. On a side note I checked my OCV and found it around 30VDC with 120VAC input.. 240 would be a little more but not enough to make a real difference.. Played with welding 3/8" rebar today and it worked great.. Overall I am pleased with my $126.00 inverter welder

  9. #34
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    [QUOTE=Raybonz;8612958]6011 is definitely harder to run on my inverter welder however I keep trying and running around 105 amps on 1/8" rod I have managed to get a few beads done.. It is doable just not easy.. I tried whip and pause method.. 6013 and 7018AC run well on my inverter welder.. On a side note I checked my OCV and found it around 30VDC with 120VAC input.. 240 would be a little more but not enough to make a real difference.. Played with welding 3/8" rebar today and it worked great.. Overall I am pleased with my $126.00 inverter welder


    On a side note I checked my OCV and found it around 30VDC with 120VAC input.. 240 would be a little more but not enough to make a real difference..




    30 Volts DC OPEN circuit???

    haven't measured my china inverter on 120v input but it is 83 vdc open circuit on 240 ac input, Didn't realize the OCV on these inverters varied that much.

    it is definitely easier to keep the 6011 electrodes lit with my transformer welder.
    have never tried any 6010 electrodes yet -may have to get some and try them.
    Last edited by 455dan; 05-02-2018 at 12:30 PM.
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  10. #35
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    My Miller Dynasty has both low and high OCV modes. Yeah, that variation is not unusual for an inverter, however, unlike with a transformer welder, low OCV does not necessarily mean that the welding voltage will drop very low. Inverters are smarter than that.

  11. #36
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    OCV on inverters doesn't mean a whole lot. OCV value is really only relevant to transformer welders.
    what you really need to know is what voltage is it when your welding.

    interesting enough i tried 6011 on my tig (in stick mode) and it would barely run it. i think i got an inch of weld.
    got the multi welder out and it ran fine on that. but i do know thats its marginal on the multi and will cut out now and then.
    if i found a 6011 rod that runs at a lower voltage, it would probably run perfectly fine.

  12. #37
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    I ran some 6011 1/8" tonight on my ahp 200. Had to turn it down to 80 amps to make it happy.

  13. #38
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square wave
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  14. #39
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by arcflash View Post
    I ran some 6011 1/8" tonight on my ahp 200. Had to turn it down to 80 amps to make it happy.
    .
    exactly on inverters 6011 if too many amps arc unstable. use bigger rod at more amps. only problems are vertical down welding where you want to run rod at max amps so inverters not good for vertical down with 6011
    .
    1/8 rod normally 70-125 amps but over 100 amps i find arc unstable. i just use 5/32 6011 if over 100 amps
    .
    i even can run 6010 but it gets worse like over 90 amps arc unstable

  15. #40
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    My Miller Maxstar 140STR will not keep a 6010 going (no surprise) but runs 6011 fine. I prefer 6010 (5P+) on my SA200 and Idealarc250 but I can live will 6011 out of a 11 pound Welder


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  16. #41
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    exactly on inverters 6011 if too many amps arc unstable. use bigger rod at more amps. only problems are vertical down welding where you want to run rod at max amps so inverters not good for vertical down with 6011
    .
    1/8 rod normally 70-125 amps but over 100 amps i find arc unstable. i just use 5/32 6011 if over 100 amps
    .
    i even can run 6010 but it gets worse like over 90 amps arc unstable
    That's weird, is your inverter a cheap one?

    My invertec and thermal arc machines run 6011 vertical down just fine.
    Dave J.

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  17. #42
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    That's weird, is your inverter a cheap one?

    My invertec and thermal arc machines run 6011 vertical down just fine.
    .
    .
    it welds vertical down 1/8 rod at 100 amps but arc not stable at 120 amps. many welders especially pipe welders run vertical down near max rod can take and go faster. big rod max amps going very fast
    .
    again my point is inverters cellulose rods dont run that well on hot side of normal range 1/8 rod thats 70-125 amps so arc stability goes unstable above 100 amps.
    .
    probably why 1/8 6011 rated 70-125 amps you hear others say they run best at 80-90 amps where on transformer welders you would run 110 amps with no problems

  18. #43
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    .
    it welds vertical down 1/8 rod at 100 amps but arc not stable at 120 amps. many welders especially pipe welders run vertical down near max rod can take and go faster. big rod max amps going very fast
    .
    again my point is inverters cellulose rods dont run that well on hot side of normal range 1/8 rod thats 70-125 amps so arc stability goes unstable above 100 amps.
    .
    probably why 1/8 6011 rated 70-125 amps you hear others say they run best at 80-90 amps where on transformer welders you would run 110 amps with no problems
    Still the same question, is your inverter cheap?

    My two work just fine at higher amps.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
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  19. #44
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Guys... Lets do this. I have a 50# box of the "mystical" 1/8"6011C... Anybody that wants to try it can send a PM and I will send out a few rods, say 5 or 10? just pay my flat rate mailing fee. Most of you will be amazed how the stuff will run on lower voltage machines. I also have 5/32" if you want to try that. Heck, I might even get a box of 3/32" if there's enough interest. Way better stuff than Box store brown and tan rods.

    Let me know. It could take a week or so to get it out.

  20. #45
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    exactly on inverters 6011 if too many amps arc unstable. use bigger rod at more amps. only problems are vertical down welding where you want to run rod at max amps so inverters not good for vertical down with 6011
    .
    1/8 rod normally 70-125 amps but over 100 amps i find arc unstable. i just use 5/32 6011 if over 100 amps
    .
    i even can run 6010 but it gets worse like over 90 amps arc unstable
    taking a guess here that its marginal on cellulose and the voltage is dropping as you increase the amps. losing just enough voltage for the arc to go unstable.
    when its marginal like that, making sure all the connections are really good will make a difference.

  21. #46
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by tweake View Post
    taking a guess here that its marginal on cellulose and the voltage is dropping as you increase the amps. losing just enough voltage for the arc to go unstable.
    when its marginal like that, making sure all the connections are really good will make a difference.
    .
    missing the whole point dont matter if welding machine is $1 or $1,000,000. some welding machine will not run cellulose rods at max amps they are made that way on purpose

    so is 1/8 6011 and 6010 normal range is 70-125 amps many inverters will run
    1/8 6011 at 100 amps good but at 125 amps arc unstable
    1/8 6010 at maybe 90 amps fair but arc unstable any higher amps
    .
    my inverter open circuit voltage like 93 volts but it responds fast in milliseconds. if arc length over 3/16" 6011 or over 1/8 long arc with 6010 arc goes out and when hot rod brought closer to hot metal arc jumps or restarts automatically
    .
    welding machine on purpose made that way for inverter type pulse welding which actually fills gaps faster as arc goes out easy and arc restarts easy
    .
    sure old transformer welders you could long arc with 6010 with 3/8 long arc as long as you want. but when you whip long and short arc lengths since arc never goes out it doesnt cool as much as if arc goes out. and if used to tig weld since you can pull a 3/8 long tig arc when you make arc go out you loose shielding and oxidize weld. if arc goes out at 3/16 long arc you still got shielding at arc stop point
    .
    my belief it is deliberately made (inverters) to impossible to long arc more than 1 second and made to restart arc easy. pulse welding where you pull up arc goes out count to 3 and bring back and arc restarts. you can repeat as many times as needed
    .
    this is faster way to weld preventing excess long arc welding on purpose. sure you can buy inverter welder with a 6010 plug so when plugged in the plug it will long arc so you can whip weld the old fashioned way. might be better to call it the old fashioned welding way and the new welding way.
    ....... whole point some inverters are made for arc to go out on purpose to
    1) make impossible sustained excess arc lengths
    2) make it easier to have tig arc go out without loosing shielding
    3) if you must whip weld or vary arc length to help fill gaps they making it better to fill gaps by have arc go out easier and arc restart arc easier
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 05-06-2018 at 04:03 PM.

  22. #47
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    Re: E6011 Keeps snuffing out!

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    .
    missing the whole point dont matter if welding machine is $1 or $1,000,000. some welding machine will not run cellulose rods at max amps they are made that way on purpose

    ..........
    .
    my belief it is deliberately made (inverters) t............
    sorry but no.

    its certainly not deliberate. no manufacture in the world wants to make a less capable product than their opposition.
    the trick of having it go out and restart is just that, a trick a work around that someone work out they could do. its not a 'feature', its a design limitation. if they could, they would have machines run every rod perfectly.
    also keep in mind a welding machine does not know what rod you have or what its max amps is. so there is no way you can design a feature for it to be unstable at a rods max amps without knowing what that max amps is.

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