Box blade repair
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  1. #1

    Box blade repair

    I bought a used 6 foot box blade for $250. My wife nicknamed it Rusty. It is a welding project for me and my son.
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    I thought it only needed one tooth socket re attached.
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    But it turns out that all the braces holding the teeth had welds that had failed or were failing.
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    The welds look rather poor to me and this pic suggests it was done with a wire feed welder.
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    To fix this problem I came up with two plans.
    Plan 1) Cut out the braces, grind them down and reweld the braces with a stick welder. To do that I would have to heat the bent long brace so that the gap would be closed. Grinding all that out would be hard work and getting that bent metal straight would also be hard.
    Plan 2) Cut out the two long braces (6 feet x 4 inches) and replace them with new braces. The original braces are 1/2 inch in thickness. I have enough 1 inch by 4 inch plate for the back brace and all the short braces that go between the two long braces (need 10, 2 for each tooth). For the front long brace I have 3/8 inch plate that I could weld together to make a 3/4 inch plate. The back brace should be stronger because that is what the ripping teeth push against when being used.
    The drawing in my next post shows the old and my plans for the new.
    Are these poor welds due to poor penetration and is that why they failed? Do you think replacing the 6 foot braces will be easier than trying to weld the short braces and bending the bent long braces? Will the front brace made of two 3/8 " plate that I weld to make a 3/4 " plate be Ok to use? The material I mentioned is just lying around and needs to be used for something. The welder is a 200 amp 240 volt stick welder and I have 6010, 7014 and 7018 rods. My son is the welder who has been to welding school and has his certificates and has been a professional welder for a whole 3 months. He is still learning and works mainly with a wire feed welder. He will ask at work, but I like asking on this forum.
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  2. #2

    Re: Box blade repair

    A drawing showing the original box blade and my plans for the repair.Name:  box blade.jpg
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Illinois
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    8,452

    Re: Box blade repair

    You way is OK if you want that much work. The gap will not be a issue with 6010 5P.

    I would clean the top and bottom sides where the welds are cracked. Leave existing welds alone. Tack top and bottom to hold as is. Then grind down existing weld and reweld. A die grinder might be helpful. IF you are skilled with a torch that will work too.
    It's easier to clean and reweld existing in my opinion. Nothing wrong doing it your way but I don't think it's necessary.

  4. #4
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    Jan 2004
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    Re: Box blade repair

    I wouldn't spend a lot of time straightening rusty metal. Not much room to get in there and grind rust out. Those welds just look plain undersized for the duty they were expected to perform. Welded on one side maybe? Cant't tell for sure.

    When you go to beef up your new ripper supports ( ), keep in mind whatever the next weak link up the ladder is. That's always a problem with beefing up just one area on equipment like that. You end up tearing something else up.
    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Cave Creek AZ
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    Re: Box blade repair

    Box blades take a fair amount of abuse. Getting hung up on rocks and roots can really jerk at the welds. Do it like BD1 suggested.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Bemidji MN
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    Re: Box blade repair

    If you want it straight and nice, use new material.

    If you want it fixed and working, do like BD1 said - tack the ends, die grind, weld.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia
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    3,270

    Re: Box blade repair

    With 7010 or 6010 rust is not an issue as it will blow that out of your weld puddle and go down to good metal and bond
    Most people do not like that rod and do not learn the proper technique to use it . once mastered it cannot be beat for a root weld rod

    But this is where that rod shines like no other it will jet out all impurities ...Rust paint etc down to good steel...once you have a good root you can overlay with 7018
    or what ever you want to use

    The only way you will get rid of the design problem with that scraper is to replace that flat strap with a piece of square of rectangular steel tubing 1/4 thick or better 3/8 thick and cut new holes for your ripper shanks to go down through then weld 2 pieces of angle on both sides of the shank a drill the hole for your shank pins...I would add more shanks myself just so it breaks up the material finer

    or you could box 2 pieces of channel iron together to form your square or rectangle tube now this would not be quite as strong as formed square or rectangular tubing but will work

    it is a bad light weight design and needs to be strengthened and a little more weight will help if you need to utilize those rippers
    Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me

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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Re: Box blade repair

    if you look at this box blade design by tractor supply, they use a heavy square tube with cut outs for the shanks, much stronger than what you have, but an easy fix for you to retrofit.. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...t?cm_vc=-10005

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    city of Four Flags
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    Re: Box blade repair

    2000,3000 or 4000 Ford?

  10. #10

    Re: Box blade repair

    Quote Originally Posted by vwguy3 View Post
    2000,3000 or 4000 Ford?
    1967 Ford 3000 Diesel


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  11. #11
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    Jan 2004
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    Re: Box blade repair

    Cool!
    My latest money pit is a 71 4000SU

  12. #12

    Re: Box blade repair

    Thanks for all the replies. I like the idea of using square tubing. I have some 3/8 “ thick square tubing but it is not wide enough for the rippers to fit. I will have to pick up 3/8” x 4”x4” x 6 foot tubing somewhere. I am more interested in having a fun, satisfying project for me and my son than a quick fix even if it costs me time and money.


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  13. #13

    Re: Box blade repair

    Quote Originally Posted by vwguy3 View Post
    Cool!
    My latest money pit is a 71 4000SU
    Old tractors have a lot more weight, so they can pull more than newer tractors. This 3000 cost $2250 but I dumped about $1500 in parts to get it running right and then another $4000 so far in implements. Definitely a money pit, but it sure is fun.


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  14. #14
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    Jan 2016
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    Re: Box blade repair

    Quote Originally Posted by JGPenfield View Post
    Thanks for all the replies. I like the idea of using square tubing. I have some 3/8 “ thick square tubing but it is not wide enough for the rippers to fit. I will have to pick up 3/8” x 4”x4” x 6 foot tubing somewhere. I am more interested in having a fun, satisfying project for me and my son than a quick fix even if it costs me time and money.


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    you also want to strengthen the 2 pieces of steel that go from the 3pt top hitch out backwards to the box on picture 1.. if you hit a big rock or tree stump it will fold those pieces, but word of caution if you make em stronger what else will collapse or bend if you hit something that wont stop or stall the tractor...

  15. #15
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    Jan 2004
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    Re: Box blade repair

    I have 3 sets of cast iron wheel weights I need to sell if you’re interested and in driving range.

  16. #16

    Re: Box blade repair

    Quote Originally Posted by vwguy3 View Post
    I have 3 sets of cast iron wheel weights I need to sell if you’re interested and in driving range.
    Rear wheels are good. Are they for front wheels? I live near Terrell, Texas.


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  17. #17
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    Re: Box blade repair

    rear.
    I was trying to avoid loading the rear tires but 600lbs was no where near enough so the got loaded with vegetable juice/oil of some kind.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    138

    Re: Box blade repair

    Quote Originally Posted by JGPenfield View Post
    Old tractors have a lot more weight, so they can pull more than newer tractors. This 3000 cost $2250 but I dumped about $1500 in parts to get it running right and then another $4000 so far in implements. Definitely a money pit, but it sure is fun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Bought a David Brown 885 from a guy for $500. New battery, changed the fluids and it ran!. Then I rebuilt the hydros and put three times the price into new tires. Gave it to my son and bought a new Mahindra 4025 4wd.
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  19. #19

    Re: Box blade repair

    I went shopping for 4” square tubing 3/8” thick, 75 “ long. It is available in 20 foot sections, but nothing shorter. I live near Dallas. When you buy your steel, do you have to buy it in 20 foot sections? Are there places that you can get single small sections? Online metals will sell it to you for an outrageous price, shipping is very high and you have to wait for it to arrive.


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  20. #20
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    Re: Box blade repair

    Quote Originally Posted by JGPenfield View Post
    I went shopping for 4” square tubing 3/8” thick, 75 “ long. It is available in 20 foot sections, but nothing shorter. I live near Dallas. When you buy your steel, do you have to buy it in 20 foot sections? Are there places that you can get single small sections? Online metals will sell it to you for an outrageous price, shipping is very high and you have to wait for it to arrive.


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    I normally just buy a full stick of whatever I'm getting.

    But the local steel yard will sell partials to me for a little extra per foot.
    If it's an expensive piece that I don't need any more of, I'll pay the extra instead of buying the whole piece.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
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    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  21. #21
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    Re: Box blade repair

    Maybe find a fab shop and see if they will sell you a shorter piece.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    10,896

    Re: Box blade repair

    I hate box blades Only good for really loose material straight from the dump truck, or stock pile. Same same for back blades. But if it's all you got, you work with it. Much superior to having nothing at all.
    "Any day above ground is a good day"

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  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Elkhorn, WI
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    Re: Box blade repair

    A local Scrap Yard probably picks up at a Fabricator? You ought to be able to buy there? Lots of them probably set the bigger stuff to the side for re-sale opportunities like this.

  24. #24

    Re: Box blade repair

    Here is an update on this project. We cut the two flat bars off holding the scarifiers. The bars were 1/2 " thick and the bracers holding the scarifiers that the welds were failing on are 3/4" plates.
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    The scarifiers were bolted on, making them very hard to change out.
    We were left with stubs that had to be cut down again.
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    The following pic is poor quality but it shows an angle grinder on the right and a reciprocating saw on the left. The angle grinder could not get in flat, it had to be angled but the reciprocating saw could slice it almost smooth with very little metal that had to be ground. It was very slow using a fine tooth blade, but on the second one I used a carbide tipped saw meant for thick metal with plenty of cutting oil and it went faster, though still it was quite slow. We considered using a torch but were afraid it would gouge into the plate since it would have to be angled. Would anyone use a torch for this? If so how do you avoid cutting into the plate if you want to cut it close with little left to grind?
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    I appreciate the advice from all, but I decided to go with the advice from killerdozerd11 and picked up the heavy 3/8 " square tubing. I was able to find a supplier in Dallas, metals4you, that sells metal online and will cut it in smaller pieces. I was able to pick it up and avoid the very high shipping charges. I bought 7 feet so I could have some extra material to practice on. This will also allow me to add a 6th ripper blade. The old design had only 5 and 6 seems standard for a 6 foot box blade. The tubing with my fingers is shown below to show how heavy duty this will be.
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    I will use a torch to cut holes on top and bottom for the scarifiers (ripper blades) to fit through.
    I followed the advice of Hobbytime and went to tractor supply and looked at their box blades. They use tubing, but it is much thinner than 3/8" and they use angle iron on either side of the holes to place the pins for securing the scarifiers, so I bought some 1/4" thick angle iron for that.
    We will be welding 3/8" thick square tubing to 3/8" thick plate.
    I have a 240 volt, 200 amp D/C stick welder that we plan to use. The metal will be cleaned to bright shiny metal with no rust anywhere. What type of welding rod(s) should be used, how many passes do I need and what amperage would be good for this weld? I also have a 120 volt Lincoln wire feed welder and can run it as Mig or flux core. I have 75%argon/25% CO2 gas. Would anyone use this welder over stick, or would it not be strong enough.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Re: Box blade repair

    thats some beefy box tubing you got, that should hold up fine, the weak point in the box blade and I have to think its a built in safty are the straps that do from the center pin on the 3 point down to the box blade, I caught a buried stump and folded the 2 straps as the box blade rolled up from the ground, I heated and pounded them back and put some, not alot of support on them as I dont want to snap or break something else if I grab another stump of big rock..

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