What Gives:
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Thread: What Gives:

  1. #1
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    What Gives:

    I buddy brought by my shop a new roll of .045 flux cored wire in Blue Demon brand. His complaint was it really welded badly. I installed the roll onto my CP-300, set the polarity to "negative" and I have to agree this stuff is bad. Can't get good edge wetting, all kinds of spatter, and without really turning up the voltage not near the penetration is should have. I swapped the polarity to "reverse" and the wire is a different animal altogether. It welds nice and all the attributes being where they should be. Much of the slag was self peeling upon cooling and very little to no hammering was needed to remove the slag. Both tests were done on new clean 1/4" steel plate with the mill slag ground off.

    He took the spool back, swapped his polarity back to reverse with the same results. The box this roll came in was unbroken, nor compromised and plainly states "straight" polarity for it's use. I'm wondering if it was packaged incorrectly but I don't think I've ever seen a flux core wire that runs with reverse polarity myself; only solid wire.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks,
    Slob

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  2. #2
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    Re: What Gives:

    He probably bought dual shield flux core.

    71t-1 is dual shield and runs dcep
    71t-11 is self shielded and runs dcen
    Dave J.

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  3. #3
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    Re: What Gives:

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    He probably bought dual shield flux core.

    71t-1 is dual shield and runs dcep
    71t-11 is self shielded and runs dcen
    Hi Dave and thanks. The box is imprinted meeting E71T-11. It's been years since I ran dual shield and it wasn't my machine then so didn't remember that possibility.
    Slob

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    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

  4. #4
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    Re: What Gives:


  5. #5
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    Re: What Gives:

    Quote Originally Posted by Slob View Post
    Hi Dave and thanks. The box is imprinted meeting E71T-11. It's been years since I ran dual shield and it wasn't my machine then so didn't remember that possibility.
    If he sees small porosity that goes away with shielding gas, then it's a good bet that's what happened.

    Is the spool also mislabeled?
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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  6. #6
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    Re: What Gives:

    Interesting you mentioned this. I just recently opened up a couple 10lb- spools (well not both, but one of) of E71T-11 that I lucked out on for $10ea. I thought it ran a little crappy but hey, it's a Longevity branded wire, so it's perhaps expected, lol. Maybe this thing also needs DCEP. Hmm....
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  7. #7
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    Re: What Gives:

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    If he sees small porosity that goes away with shielding gas, then it's a good bet that's what happened.

    Is the spool also mislabeled?
    There is no label on the spool itself. I'll pass along to try a shielding gas with it to see if any improvement.

    Thanks to Denis G for the informative post also.

    Thanks,
    Slob

    Purveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.

    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

  8. #8
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    Re: What Gives:

    Quote Originally Posted by Slob View Post
    There is no label on the spool itself. I'll pass along to try a shielding gas with it to see if any improvement.

    Thanks to Denis G for the informative post also.

    Thanks,
    Heck, unlabeled product behaving weird. I'd tell Blue Demon to send me a replacement.

    Stuff that don't work right - "Ain't nobody got time for dat."
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
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    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  9. #9
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    Re: What Gives:

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    Heck, unlabeled product behaving weird. I'd tell Blue Demon to send me a replacement.

    Stuff that don't work right - "Ain't nobody got time for dat."
    Got a feeling that is what is going to happen. I've not used the brand myself but this may be an indicator to avoid them in the future?
    Slob

    Purveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.

    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

  10. #10
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    Re: What Gives:

    Self peeling slag, very little smoke, very smooth bead, its probably 71-M. Most 71t-11 spatters, smokes, and has very defined ripples in the weld, hard to remove light colored slag . I don't think I've ever had a 71T-11 or GS with self peeling slag... I've used alot of blue demon wires, and never had any problem, mig, tig, and brazing wire,welding rod or tungstens. Mcmaster carr supply carries many of their products. All of the blue demon stuff has had labels on it. Where did he buy it ? Should be able to send/take it back. Though a ten pound roll might not be worth the bother, and expense if it has to shipped. I might be more apt to avoid the seller, than the brand.

    Good luck
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  11. #11
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    Re: What Gives:

    Nothing wrong with the vendor and readily admitted fault. It was packaged incorrectly as the shipping pallet the stock arrived on had damage and the rolls were repackaged. I noticed no damage myself but I'm told the vendor has had other questions very similar so wholesale replacing. The wire "probably" is the 71T1, or could be the "71M" mentioned as they have all three types. Regardless the correct roll is being shipped today and I've inherited the other for my use someplace. Going to install a new floor in my dump truck shortly so will give it a go there.

    Thanks for the help.
    Slob

    Purveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.

    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

  12. #12
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    Re: What Gives:

    Glad they figured it out, and sent him the right wire, that kind of mix-up can be such a head ache. you can spend an hour trying to figure out what your doing wrong. Another reason to keep welding rod around, every piece is marked what it is.
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  13. #13
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    Re: What Gives:

    I ran the daylights out of some Blue Demon S-FCAW wire just a bit back. Had to do a ton of caps (well a ton for the likes of me anyways ) I HATE CAPS

    It's good stuff, just turn it up, and run the wire as fast as it will fill. I'm not out to win any beauty contests when I do my caps (I HATE CAPS )

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    I generally seal, and buildout my corners, then fill the long stretches. I do everything a bit different

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    Switched to Blue Demon when my supplier no longer carried Weldmark. Weldmark was/is good stuff...….it's made by Esab.

  14. #14
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    Re: What Gives:

    That's about how it lays down on Reverse polarity too Sam. I'm going to try some shielding gas with it to see if any improvement or if it should be run alone. Going to put a new floor into my dump truck to haul off several tons of broken up concrete to a place that breaks it down to make aggregate. Ordered a new rock bucket for the skid steer to to separate the dirt and trash from the concrete which is all they'll take. The floor will get beat to piss quickly from the sizes of these chunks so will be a good test for the weld strength.
    Slob

    Purveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.

    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

  15. #15
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    Re: What Gives:

    LWS salesman and a rep for Blue Demon came by local shipyard with some of the same wire.
    When asked for Classification society approval certs, he handed over some for Kiswell wire from 2012 and said said they were just a respooling company. No problem with respoolers however they have to have traceability for their product same as original wire manufacturer. Shipyard elected to not try it until they could establish traceability. Thats been about 10 days with nothing else heard from them.

  16. #16
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    Re: What Gives:

    I grabbed some Blue Demon flux core last year and it did a fine job.


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  17. #17
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    Re: What Gives:

    This looks to be a 33# spool I have and there are no indications or labels on it.
    Slob

    Purveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.

    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

  18. #18
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    Re: What Gives:

    Quote Originally Posted by Slob View Post
    That's about how it lays down on Reverse polarity too Sam. I'm going to try some shielding gas with it to see if any improvement or if it should be run alone. Going to put a new floor into my dump truck to haul off several tons of broken up concrete to a place that breaks it down to make aggregate. Ordered a new rock bucket for the skid steer to to separate the dirt and trash from the concrete which is all they'll take. The floor will get beat to piss quickly from the sizes of these chunks so will be a good test for the weld strength.
    You know...…...I'm wondering...….

    The pic in my previous post was running very hot very fast. On the HH190 the tap was at 5, and wire speed at about 45-50. I'm flyin' I call these my "don't give a dam caps"

    But when run with more reasonable parameters, the same wire yields some pretty nice welds at higher voltage, and lower wire speed. (depending on material thickness, and corresponding voltage for that thickness)

    Blue Demon .030, tap #7, wire speed about 40ish

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    Some pics of thinner stuff run at more reasonable parameters with the same Blue Demon .030

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    Anyways, I'm thinking you might keep it at DCEN (if it is INDEED the wire it's supposed to be), and look at changing your parameters.

  19. #19
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    Re: What Gives:

    Quote Originally Posted by Slob View Post
    That's about how it lays down on Reverse polarity too Sam. I'm going to try some shielding gas with it to see if any improvement or if it should be run alone. Going to put a new floor into my dump truck to haul off several tons of broken up concrete to a place that breaks it down to make aggregate. Ordered a new rock bucket for the skid steer to to separate the dirt and trash from the concrete which is all they'll take. The floor will get beat to piss quickly from the sizes of these chunks so will be a good test for the weld strength.
    You know...…...I'm wondering...….

    The pic in my previous post was running very hot very fast. On the HH190 the tap was at 5, and wire speed at about 45-50. I'm flyin' I call these my "don't give a dam caps"

    But when run with more reasonable parameters, the same wire yields some pretty nice welds at higher voltage, and lower wire speed. (depending on material thickness, and corresponding voltage for that thickness)

    Blue Demon .030, tap #7, wire speed about 40ish

    Name:  .030 hot.jpg
Views: 141
Size:  141.0 KB

    Some pics of thinner stuff run at more reasonable parameters with the same Blue Demon .030

    Name:  greasable pin8.jpg
Views: 141
Size:  146.5 KB

    Name:  panels10.jpg
Views: 141
Size:  123.1 KB

    Name:  splicing tubing11a.jpg
Views: 141
Size:  122.2 KB

    Anyways, I'm thinking you might keep it at DCEN (if it is INDEED the wire it's supposed to be), and look at changing your parameters.

  20. #20
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    Re: What Gives:

    Ooops

  21. #21

    Re: What Gives:

    I have use 71t-1 is dual shield and 71-11 no gas
    When had a shop the biggest problem was stick out it needs 1/2" from tip to steel
    I found a Gas Nozzle from Tweco for flue core wire it gave stick out need for the flux to vaparirest.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Slob View Post
    I buddy brought by my shop a new roll of .045 flux cored wire in Blue Demon brand. His complaint was it really welded badly. I installed the roll onto my CP-300, set the polarity to "negative" and I have to agree this stuff is bad. Can't get good edge wetting, all kinds of spatter, and without really turning up the voltage not near the penetration is should have. I swapped the polarity to "reverse" and the wire is a different animal altogether. It welds nice and all the attributes being where they should be. Much of the slag was self peeling upon cooling and very little to no hammering was needed to remove the slag. Both tests were done on new clean 1/4" steel plate with the mill slag ground off.

    He took the spool back, swapped his polarity back to reverse with the same results. The box this roll came in was unbroken, nor compromised and plainly states "straight" polarity for it's use. I'm wondering if it was packaged incorrectly but I don't think I've ever seen a flux core wire that runs with reverse polarity myself; only solid wire.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks,

  22. #22
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    Re: What Gives:

    I found this stuff to really like the higher voltage too. I'm running about 28-30V and the feeder at about 40-45 on it's dial. It's an old Miller "10E" series. The wire wet's in nicely without sinking in the toes, and is pretty flat across the fillet. It seems to have pretty wide operating parameters as I've dialed down to 22V and it still runs but definitely likes more voltage. I've not experimented with anything of significance yet. Only 3/16" angle to other scrap as test pieces.

    I need to build another vertical hydraulic press for the shop and am going to use this wire for it. That should be able to stress some welds and I'll report back on this. I ordered 3/4" X 4" strap today for the vertical members, and will use heavy 8" channel and 3/4" plate to support the hydraulic cylinder mounting. Thinking the cylinder is 4-1/2" bore and it's a fresh rebuild for a 955 Caterpillar track loader/dozer. Buddy gave it to me to build a wood splitter with. I don't burn wood but another press will be nice.
    Slob

    Purveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.

    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

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