Enough is enough
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    62

    Enough is enough

    So I have a 58 SA-200 and it was sitting for years before it landed here. Well I have been putting off some work on it, and now I could have used it yesterday and it didn't start. So time to get it working right

    First of all, it has a Wico magneto, with a pretty bad cap, so I will order a cap, rotor, and points today. Then take it off and retime everything. Has anyone spent much time with one of these? Anyone have a few pointers on Wico?

    Next, the carb is old, steel, and not the best. I am toying with just buying a new one and putting this one on the shelf for later. Do the new ones have the mesh screen on the inlet?

    Then the fuel line is a mess, so I will install a steel line, does anyone make a pre-made one? If not I was just going to bend some tubing and try for the best path.

    Ounce I get it running reliably it sure will be nice and handy.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,236

    Re: Enough is enough

    Can't help on the Wico.

    I assume "steel" carburetor means it's a Marvel Schebler. Probably a TSX-514 or 239. Either way a Hygrade 1302 rebuild kit is cheap. McDonald Carb and Ignition can get you any thing you need to make it gooderinnew. I'm kinda partial to the Marvel's. Clean and properly kitted, their easy to work on and tune.

    Mesh screens can be had everywhere for cheap. Just look for a "fuel strainer elbow fitting". Or if you order some stuff from McDonald Carb, he'll have one.

    http://www.mcdonaldcarb.com/category_s/356.htm

    No one I know of makes a premade fuel line. But I have seen them made out of everything from copper tube to rubber line.
    "You can't out puke a buzzard"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Pipeliner View Post
    Can't help on the Wico.

    I assume "steel" carburetor means it's a Marvel Schebler. Probably a TSX-514 or 239. Either way a Hygrade 1302 rebuild kit is cheap. McDonald Carb and Ignition can get you any thing you need to make it gooderinnew. I'm kinda partial to the Marvel's. Clean and properly kitted, their easy to work on and tune.

    Mesh screens can be had everywhere for cheap. Just look for a "fuel strainer elbow fitting". Or if you order some stuff from McDonald Carb, he'll have one.

    http://www.mcdonaldcarb.com/category_s/356.htm

    No one I know of makes a premade fuel line. But I have seen them made out of everything from copper tube to rubber line.
    Yes it is a Marvel schebler carb, so I have have the choice of rebuilding or replacing. I will chase down a rebuild kit and see what my options are. Thanks for the link. I just need to verify the carb model

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,236

    Re: Enough is enough

    If you get a Hygrade 1302 it will rebuild 99% of Marvels and you'll have half a box of parts left over. You'll need to get throttle shaft bushings from McDonald if they're sloppy.
    "You can't out puke a buzzard"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    cntrl FL
    Posts
    838

    Re: Enough is enough

    Is that '58 an early Long Hood with the R-57 idler or a Late model Short Hood that has a Bellows idler? I'm Just curious.
    SA 200's 1970, 1969,1965, 1963, 1955/44,
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    Miller Load Bank
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by BYW200 View Post
    Is that '58 an early Long Hood with the R-57 idler or a Late model Short Hood that has a Bellows idler? I'm Just curious.
    Long hood with the R-57 idler. Still 6 volt pos ground. Only thing they changed is it has a spin on oil filter.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Orange, TX
    Posts
    16,576

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Pipeliner View Post
    No one I know of makes a premade fuel line. But I have seen them made out of everything from copper tube to rubber line.
    1/4" steel brake line works too but you'll need a double flare flaring tool if you have to cut a standard length line to get it to fit.

    My go to is rubber fuel line with appropriate barbed fittings at the sediment bowl and carb fuel inlet with inline fuel filter for extra protection.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
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    4 out of the 5 voices in my head say "Go for it".

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Livingston, New Jersey, United States
    Posts
    1,092

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneb55 View Post
    1/4" steel brake line works too but you'll need a double flare flaring tool if you have to cut a standard length line to get it to fit.

    My go to is rubber fuel line with appropriate barbed fittings at the sediment bowl and carb fuel inlet with inline fuel filter for extra protection.
    Glad you said that Duane that is what I used and hoped it was right.
    John

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Parts are inbound. Being at the end of the road they should be here by the end of the week. I will strip the carb and get a soak going so its ready for a rebuild. Just finished printing off the magneto timing from the manuals post in previous threads (thank you Duane) so by the time parts hit the mailbox I should be ready.

    Then after its running I will get the gin pole truck done, lift the SAE-300 off the trailer and pull the head off to see how bad things are,

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneb55 View Post
    1/4" steel brake line works too but you'll need a double flare flaring tool if you have to cut a standard length line to get it to fit.

    My go to is rubber fuel line with appropriate barbed fittings at the sediment bowl and carb fuel inlet with inline fuel filter for extra protection.
    I have been bending the steel brake line for my older tractors to make the ones that are unavailable, it has a mix of cooper and rubber line on it right now, which leaks.

    The clean bent steel lines appeal to my OCD, but they say the have pills for that, oh well

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    well the parts arrived today, so Saturday morning i will give her a good work over.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    Not there
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    1,740

    Re: Enough is enough

    Poat a video. These kids that never welded with one will never be able to understand.......nothing is even similar.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Wel I got the mag done, and the carb done, and everything back together. It fires up and ran but needs some adjustments. I need to check the timing and then recheck the OCV and away we go

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    Not there
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    1,740

    Re: Enough is enough

    Fantastic.......I'm scanning the market for anorher one the last few days. Some old guys want a 'vette or a Harley....I already did that.
    I wanna die listening to an SA idling down after I drop the stinger on the ground and spill my last beer. Is that too much to ask for ?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    2,447

    Re: Enough is enough

    I want to fuel inject a sa200...
    Maybe one day ill get another one to play with

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael ray View Post
    I want to fuel inject a sa200...
    Maybe one day ill get another one to play with

    I have been pondering this, one would think you could make a pick-up from the mag drive gear, then run a GM injector in a throttle body inplace of the carb. Now all you need is a simple ECM. Like on the old gm 4 bangers

    Let me know how it works��

  17. #17
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    Mar 2016
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    North Georgia
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    2,447

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoff907 View Post
    I have been pondering this, one would think you could make a pick-up from the mag drive gear, then run a GM injector in a throttle body inplace of the carb. Now all you need is a simple ECM. Like on the old gm 4 bangers

    Let me know how it works��
    Any timed signal can be converted into an input for the control module..
    Been gathering up the parts to inject a Harley and still plan on it pretty soon.
    Best thing ive found for the computer is a brand called megasquirt. All the parameters are fully adjustable, can use a series of coil packs or a single coil pack for a modern 4 cylinder and high or low impendance injectors..
    Ive done a couple types of motors with that computer and it is awesome for engine control

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Well I will be going back out for the 4th attempt to time the magneto. The Wico rotor can be installed anywhere on the shaft, there is no index to it. Now I can see where the rotor drive gear is beveled so maybe it is suppose to be set to the rotor somehow. Anyway, I can not get it to do more than pop off, and sometimes less

    It sure is getting frustrating

  19. #19
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    Mar 2016
    Location
    North Georgia
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    2,447

    Re: Enough is enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoff907 View Post
    Well I will be going back out for the 4th attempt to time the magneto. The Wico rotor can be installed anywhere on the shaft, there is no index to it. Now I can see where the rotor drive gear is beveled so maybe it is suppose to be set to the rotor somehow. Anyway, I can not get it to do more than pop off, and sometimes less

    It sure is getting frustrating
    Back when i was a kid...had to be less than 12... i had a honda 3 wheeler that i couldnt find timing marks for. I watched the intake and exhaust valve in relation to the piston and tried to start it.. moved the cam advance and retard a couple teeth and coukdnt get it going...sat there for a couple hours and just started moving the cam a tooth at a time and repeatedly tried to start it..finially after 25-30 attempts i got it running..had to move it a couple more teeth for it to run good..and when it ran good, i discovered the proper way to time it, it was pretty clear.. learned alot about how stuff works by doing it

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Well I set the only timing mark I see on the rotor, a small line directly under the rotor point/tab between the two bevel gears. Seems close. Got a decent spark on #4 on the bench, rechecked the whole timing of the governor and the rest, and then reinstalled the mag. Then I went thru the carb again just to be sure.

    It will fire and start, but not run.i have turned the mag top as far towards the block as I can

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    update

    I called BW and spoke with Randy, then called Standard Magneto. after talking with them I ended up with the following

    1) I am timing the Rotor to the gear correctly

    2) I need to check the advance, with is fairly easy

    3) since the Plug wires are suspect and may be the wrong type for a Magneto I will replace the Plugs, wires, and magneto coil


    I am timing the unit correctly, just missing a few items and there could be some issues, so lets see when the next batch of parts show up
    Last edited by Hoff907; 08-14-2017 at 03:19 PM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Well the parts came this week, and I put them in the mag, it was set to the correct advance.

    After assemble when I went to bench test it, no spark. Back apart, and the two wires off the coil I mixed up. I had spark over nearly 5/32 of an inch and blue. Took the wife shopping, went back this morning and no spark on the bench. I am pulling my hair out with this. So I took it back apart, checked the points gap, and it's 15 thousand, the only thing I can guess is I have a spark plug on it set to .030 for my last check. Back to the bench


    FYI. Primary coil checks in at 1.5 ohms, secondary coil at 5.46 K ohms, points set to .015, plugs and wires from high speed and new, cap, rotor, coil, points, condenser new from BW.

    With the coil ground removed I have no continuity from the unit to the case, with the mag rotating and the cap off you can see sparks at the points, the tabs from the cap are touching the coil button and I would guess the rotor but I can not see that one. With a meter I have continuity from cap to the plug electrode. I have cleaned the points twice and will do a third one next.

    This thing is starting to get frustrating

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    62

    Re: Enough is enough

    Cleaned and went thru it again, no spark from the 4 plugs clamped to the table.

    Checked and cleaned the points, re-gaped the plugs to .020, zilch

    And a tig rod to the coil button will jump almost 3/8 inch. But nothing out of the rotor and cap.
    Last edited by Hoff907; 08-20-2017 at 03:31 PM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Beacon and Pawling, New York
    Posts
    1,108

    Re: Enough is enough

    Change the rotor. I have seen rotors fail where the spark will ground to the distributor shaft.
    Eventual master of the obvious, practitioner of "stream of consciousness fabrication". P.S. I edit almost every post because because I'm posting from my phone and my fingers sometimes move faster than my brain.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    112

    Re: Enough is enough

    I have had brand new condensors that were bad. Not uncommon in this chinese parts world

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