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  1. #26
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    I feel the need to throw my opinion out there unfortunately .

    It is obvious you have a little problem whether it be poor cooling or a programming issue or perhaps maybe even just a ground strap . The issue is what ever the problem may be it is taking out transmissions. I feel since this is a repetitive issue and not being "fixed" it is time for you to stop worrying about the warranty , take your van home and fix the problem yourself . If i had a vehicle or piece of equipment that can set for weeks at a time at the dealership , i would be very tempted to let them keep it permanently. A warranty is only good for saving money, nothing else .

  2. #27
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Backing uphill, especially with a load (a vehicle of that size is load enough), puts plenty of heat to the torque converter real quick. A transmission engineer on another site said the torque converter can see temps approach 300F in seconds when backing uphill with a load. When backing uphill with my PSD 4R100 I always use low range.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Quote Originally Posted by bigb View Post
    Backing uphill, especially with a load (a vehicle of that size is load enough), puts plenty of heat to the torque converter real quick. A transmission engineer on another site said the torque converter can see temps approach 300F in seconds when backing uphill with a load. When backing uphill with my PSD 4R100 I always use low range.
    Me too. An article in Trailer Boat Magazine a number of years ago made a real impression on me. They talked of the situation of a heavy boat, maneuvering at low speed generating considerable heat. I temper that with the fact this truck has no 2 wheel drive in low range. On dry pavement with little slip considerable strain can build up front to rear.

    Another thing the same article stated was that most torque converters lock into synchronous speed when close. Nobody I've talked to recently is aware if this is still the case or not.
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  4. #29
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Quote Originally Posted by dosswelding View Post
    I feel the need to throw my opinion out there unfortunately .

    It is obvious you have a little problem whether it be poor cooling or a programming issue or perhaps maybe even just a ground strap . The issue is what ever the problem may be it is taking out transmissions. I feel since this is a repetitive issue and not being "fixed" it is time for you to stop worrying about the warranty , take your van home and fix the problem yourself . If i had a vehicle or piece of equipment that can set for weeks at a time at the dealership , i would be very tempted to let them keep it permanently. A warranty is only good for saving money, nothing else .
    I'm not there yet, but I'm thinking that repeated failures are costing more in down time than a permanent fix might. I believe a 6L90 transmission gives good service life in pickups. My son and many thousands of other owners have proven this. I suspect it is an engineering problem trying to get 20 MPG from a 4.5 ton vehicle. Realistic gear ratios would reduce the strain on the torque converter in the same way that low range in close quarter maneuvering does, (see bigb's post). $1500. in gear sets would make my van behave better, and might extend the life of the torque converter. I'm thinking 4.11:1 would improve that torque converter slip substantially.

    My son's pickup with the same engine, and now I learn, the same transmission had a tow rating of something close to 20,000 LBS. Don't crucify me for accuracy on this I haven't looked it up. Tow rating jumps by about 2 tons with the change from 3.73 to 4.11.
    Last edited by Willie B; 10-15-2017 at 04:07 PM.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  5. #30
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I temper that with the fact this truck has no 2 wheel drive in low range. On dry pavement with little slip considerable strain can build up front to rear.
    I have ESOF but I rigged up a way to disable the hubs when I want 2WD LO.
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  6. #31
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Quote Originally Posted by bigb View Post
    I have ESOF but I rigged up a way to disable the hubs when I want 2WD LO.
    Hadn't thought of that. Perhaps I'll do that.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  7. #32
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    "My son's pickup with the same engine, and now I learn, the same transmission had a tow rating of something close to 20,000 LBS. Don't crucify me for accuracy on this I haven't looked it up. Tow rating jumps by about 2 tons with the change from 3.73 to 4.11."

    HMMM...That would make me wonder if GM knew they had a problem.

  8. #33
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    "HMMM...That would make me wonder if GM knew they had a problem."

    I knew they had a problem. Lifelong I've weigher the question of 4.10 gearing, Vs. 3.73. 4.10 supports a taller tire, tows a bigger trailer, but gets poorer gas mileage. When I learned this truck I wasn't allowed a lower (higher number ratio) but was locked into 3.42 I was deeply concerned. Then I learn that high gear was even higher overdrive than my last van, I got worried.

    My last van was 3.73 5.7 Vortec with 4L80E, and GM corporate 14 bolt. It was a little underpowered at 65 MPH climbing long hills with the camper trailer. Those things push a lot of air in front, and a lot of suction behind. The 6 litre is rated near 100 HP more than 5.7. I looked into buying a one ton, but they have the same drive train, the only change is springs.

    GM wasn't offering much information, the salesman assured me engineers had addressed all these issues, "Your transmission just won't use higher gears under load."
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  9. #34
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Just curiuos, does the van have the "Tow/Haul" button? It changes the transmission program to stay in lower gears longer and downshift more readily. I've heard some people say it increases pump pressure and shift aggressiveness, and other things, but I can't say if any of that is correct or not.

    My work van (Chevy 3500 with 6.0l) is stupid aggressive with the upshifts when not in "Tow" mode. Even when not towing it can be frustrating. It wants so bad to go straight to the highest gear and is always hesitant to shift down. Probably the most annoying auto transmission I have ever driven. It will sometimes upshift when going up an incline (does it even when not towing), and start dropping speed because it doesn't have enough torque to maintain speed in that gear. I ease in the pedal and it doesn't downshift (despite that it is still slowing down) until it is nearly floored. Then it will decide to drop a couple gears, the engine will roar and it will start accelerating too fast, so I ease off the pedal slightly, at which time it decides to go back to 6th and it falls on its face again.

  10. #35
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTB View Post
    Just curiuos, does the van have the "Tow/Haul" button? It changes the transmission program to stay in lower gears longer and downshift more readily. I've heard some people say it increases pump pressure and shift aggressiveness, and other things, but I can't say if any of that is correct or not.

    My work van (Chevy 3500 with 6.0l) is stupid aggressive with the upshifts when not in "Tow" mode. Even when not towing it can be frustrating. It wants so bad to go straight to the highest gear and is always hesitant to shift down. Probably the most annoying auto transmission I have ever driven. It will sometimes upshift when going up an incline (does it even when not towing), and start dropping speed because it doesn't have enough torque to maintain speed in that gear. I ease in the pedal and it doesn't downshift (despite that it is still slowing down) until it is nearly floored. Then it will decide to drop a couple gears, the engine will roar and it will start accelerating too fast, so I ease off the pedal slightly, at which time it decides to go back to 6th and it falls on its face again.
    No. I've never had any of your symptoms. Mine, a 2013 2500 slams first gear on downshifts. I'd say it never needs first, but some roads are so rough that I have to crawl. Other than that, it drives smoothly when the transmission is working. It is NEVER short of power. I do switch to manual shift on steep downhills because the grade braking feature feels brutal the way it bangs in. I'd rather be more gentle on the whole drivetrain when slowing with the engine.

    I'd say tow/haul probably moves to lower gear on hills a bit sooner so the engine accelerates earlier, therefore less if the hill is long. The differences are very subtle.

    They told me there is no difference except springs between 2500, and 3500. I wonder if they are wrong when it comes to programing.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  11. #36
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    My van is one of the "fleet" vans that has a custom box on the back (and the old style interior, and until just last year, the old, large, square bulb headlights). I've heard rumors they have a de-tuned engine (less power than what you'd get if you buy off the lot from a dealer). Don't know if it's true.

    I do wonder if part of the shift issue stems from the learning that the computer does. I live in a very flat area. Hills are mostly limited to highway overpasses. That's where a good 90% of my driving happens. But when I do find myself driving further for work, I get that annoying behavior on hills steep enough to warrant downshifting.

    Even on flat ground though it can be sluggish to downshift at times.

    Having said that, my last two work vans (we lease them and cycle them out once they get above 100K miles, and I put at least 30K a year on them) all had the same powertrain setup (6.0l and 6 speed auto), and neither had any transmission issues in 100,000 miles. One did have an engine replaced at 75K after it simply shut off on the highway and after a month in the dealership they couldn't find anything wrong, yet couldn't make it run (despite having thrown a bunch of parts at it). Replaced the engine under warranty!

  12. #37
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    My claim of 2500 vs 3500 was limited to the smaller 3500 single wheel, gasoline 3500. I'd bet you have a dually, with different gear ratio, and a lot more GVWR. Mine is 8600 LBS GVWR. The next step is 9500 LBS. People at the dealership at the time did considerable research of part numbers, and (they tell me) the only part numbers that differ is springs. I wanted lower gear ratio, would have chosen the much more expensive 3500 if I could have gotten it.

    People at Quigley tell me the GM front differentials taken from 2500HD pickups are not available in 3.42 so they have to change gearsets to fit them in GM vans.

    Manufacturers think of vehicles beyond the original leaseholder, or owner. They want to get back a saleable vehicle. They routinely force buyers to accept features they don't want. Vans are even easier to do this. Most are fleet vehicles. You can have any shade of white you want. Purchasing agents aren't very concerned by your preferences. Other factors govern their decisions. 3.42, with double overdrive transmissions help meet government mandated fuel economy goals. If drivers hate that is of little consequence in vans.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  13. #38
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    I blew my 4L80E at 50k miles. When I had it rebuilt I had them upgrade everything to hd parts. Owner of shop gave me the advice to never tow in "D" as overdrive kills transmissions when used for towing. Since then I pick the gear manually to tow (usually 3). No problems since.

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  14. #39
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    My claim of 2500 vs 3500 was limited to the smaller 3500 single wheel, gasoline 3500. I'd bet you have a dually, with different gear ratio, and a lot more GVWR. Mine is 8600 LBS GVWR. The next step is 9500 LBS. People at the dealership at the time did considerable research of part numbers, and (they tell me) the only part numbers that differ is springs. I wanted lower gear ratio, would have chosen the much more expensive 3500 if I could have gotten it.

    People at Quigley tell me the GM front differentials taken from 2500HD pickups are not available in 3.42 so they have to change gearsets to fit them in GM vans.

    Manufacturers think of vehicles beyond the original leaseholder, or owner. They want to get back a saleable vehicle. They routinely force buyers to accept features they don't want. Vans are even easier to do this. Most are fleet vehicles. You can have any shade of white you want. Purchasing agents aren't very concerned by your preferences. Other factors govern their decisions. 3.42, with double overdrive transmissions help meet government mandated fuel economy goals. If drivers hate that is of little consequence in vans.
    Nah, just single wheel axle. Last two vans were just a long wheelbase van (no custom box), I believe 8600 GVWR. Latest van does have a custom box with cabinets and tool boxes, but still just a single wheel. My new van is 9900 GVWR though. I haven't had it long, so I don't know if the transmission behavior will be the same as the previous two. We tend to get completely stripped vans. Radio (no CD or anything) and AC, that's it. No cruise control, power anything etc. My new van is downright luxurious, with cruise control, power locks and windows (still no CD player or anything like that).

    And yep, always white, though the last couple years we've been having them wrapped with decals/graphics.

  15. #40
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    I'm very discouraged. I'm feeling like a pawn. Based on what I have been told; GM uses the same transmission in both two, and four wheel drive vehicles of this size. Transmissions in pickups are identical to those in vans. Rear driveshafts need a means of varying their length to allow the suspension to move up and down. In two wheel drive vehicles a tailpiece with bearings, and a spline bolts to the rear of the transmission. Transmission fluid flows into this to lubricate.

    In four wheel drive applications, the tailpiece is not used. Oil ports that would flow oil rearward must be plugged, a seal is added around the output shaft. A transmission provided for a four wheel drive will have these plugs, and seal. To convert, these plugs, and seal must be added.

    These plugs/seals needed by Quigley for 4x4 conversions Quigley buys from GM. GM sells them to Quigley in a unit at a time. Quigley buys thousands of them at once from GM. The number they use is per pallet. Some time was wasted as Quigley only has a part number for 5,000 plugs. When Quigley researched the part number for one plug, and tried to pass it on to the individual who requested it, the Langway Motors (I call them) "call prevention system" left her on hold indefinitely. Eventually an uncooperative parts man may, or may not have passed these numbers on to the service writer who requested numbers.

    These part numbers were ordered from GM. After a period of days, it was decided the parts would not be available from GM except in lots of 5000.

    At some point it was decided to order two plugs from Quigley, along with one shaft seal. As of closing time today, I was informed "We are still waiting for parts from Quigley."

    This marks three weeks without my motorized tool box. My customers aren't interested in excuses. I'm at a loss as to what to do.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  16. #41
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Willie, it may be time for some legal representation. One of my customers had a number of the 6.0 fords and a letter was required to get the ball rolling on the repairs on 3 at once. I hate lawyers as a rule, but they have their place. Just reading the posts made my chain sore.
    Regards
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  17. #42
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Quote Originally Posted by smilindave View Post
    Willie, it may be time for some legal representation. One of my customers had a number of the 6.0 fords and a letter was required to get the ball rolling on the repairs on 3 at once. I hate lawyers as a rule, but they have their place. Just reading the posts made my chain sore.
    Regards
    Dave
    I'm real close. In morning of each passing day I think call the lawyer, then I decide to wait till late afternoon to see progress. Each day, no change.
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  18. #43
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Willie I am not trying to start anything, or make you more upset, but have you thought how this might affect your next purchase? Mechanical things break and wear if used. If parts and or service is not available, no matter make or model, problems will ensue. It is terrible that many repairs come to this.


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  19. #44
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    It's time for a craigslist pickup to get you back to work temporarily.
    I deal with specialty vehicle's from time to time , everything from 4x4 bucket trucks to limousine's and i feel your pain . The oem dealer says no way contact the outfitter and the outfitter usually will try to refer you back to the dealer and the never ending circle begins , if you mention warranty the phone usually goes quiet before the modification exclusion excuses begin . What I'm getting at is you have a specialty vehicle and it's going to take a specialty shop to fix it correctly. I'm absolutely not mocking you or talking trash , I'm just saying the normal go to people are not gonna help you in this situation with a modified vehicle and if nothing else just know your not alone.

  20. #45
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Quote Originally Posted by dosswelding View Post
    It's time for a craigslist pickup to get you back to work temporarily.
    I deal with specialty vehicle's from time to time , everything from 4x4 bucket trucks to limousine's and i feel your pain . The oem dealer says no way contact the outfitter and the outfitter usually will try to refer you back to the dealer and the never ending circle begins , if you mention warranty the phone usually goes quiet before the modification exclusion excuses begin . What I'm getting at is you have a specialty vehicle and it's going to take a specialty shop to fix it correctly. I'm absolutely not mocking you or talking trash , I'm just saying the normal go to people are not gonna help you in this situation with a modified vehicle and if nothing else just know your not alone.
    The sales pitch when you buy one of these is you buy from your GM dealer. It in no way amends your warranty. Your GM dealer performs warranty work. They settle between Quigley, and GM who pays for warranty work. My understanding is that this, and the last two repairs Quigley has reimbursed the dealer for removing, and reinstalling the transfer case. The other repairs have been paid by GM.

    You're right, tiny problems have turned into big ones because of this blame game.

    In past I have considered a utility body on a cab and chassis. Due to weight of body, and needed size, I feel I'd need a dually, that usually means diesel, and horrible fuel economy. I'm a formerly 5'9", (now even less) and working from a heavy 4x4 pickup means every little item is a big effort in mountain climbing, and cave crawling. My 4x4 van is so convenient. It has eight doors, I can reach nearly everything standing on the ground. I've always had a van, two have been a nightmare of warranty repairs. The last Ford was in at least two days for warranty work 24 times in the first 36000 miles. 14 times for engine noise that finally proved to be missing bolts in an exhaust heat shield. That effort included a new engine. Brakes were worked on three times, they never did get the back brakes to function at all!
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  21. #46
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    Re: Bad transmission: Chevrolet

    Read most of this... (some misinformation in here but)...

    The Ford 4R100 transmission... was great... unfortunately it had the 5.4 Trion 3 Valve in front of it (an absolute nightmare: See plugs, cam phasers, exhaust mani's etc)

    The 4L80E is actually a decent transmission. Unfortunately for the van (which is confirmed by the converter burnouts) you have a SERIOUS temperature problem. This is compounded if you have high idle times and short/hard intermittent driving/towing

    If you keep the van... add aftermarket cooler(s) cheap and be done. Torque converter burnout

    /thread

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