Welding square tubing together - Page 4
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  1. #76
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by N2 Welding View Post
    Won't the slag practically peel it self away from the welded bead when temps are correct?
    I have had slag curl up like that. Very cool and easy !!


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  2. #77
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by N2 Welding View Post
    Won't the slag practically peel it self away from the welded bead when temps are correct?
    That is usually a good indication that the amps are right but it also happens when running hot. Slag peels up and you are feeling like a rock star only to tap off the slag and see undercut. Most of the time I see that happen is vertical. When running overhead its not uncommon for the slag to just fall off but again its important to watch for undercut.
    Last edited by TheWeldingConnector; 11-16-2017 at 06:43 PM.
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  3. #78
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWeldingConnector View Post
    That is usually a good indication that the amps are right but it also happens when running hot. Slag peels up and you are feeling like a rock star only to tap off the slag and see undercut. Most of the time I see that happen is vertical. When running overhead its not uncommon for the slag to just fall off but again its important to watch for undercut.
    You would think that there would be a good chart somewhere with less of a range than the current suggested charts I have seen. I have the Miller calculators. I guess the base metal thickness comes into play even with stick welding.


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  4. #79
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by davezelonis View Post
    You would think that there would be a good chart somewhere with less of a range than the current suggested charts I have seen. I have the Miller calculators. I guess the base metal thickness comes into play even with stick welding.


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    A lot depends on welding position but it also depends on metal thickness and skill level. 125 amps should be within 10 amps of anything you want to do welding 1/8th stick 7018. Welding vertical on thin metal around 100 amps might be right. Vertical on thicker metal might be all the up in the 125 range. If the machine output is accurate I know that I will be able to weld vertical at 110, overhead at 120, and flat at 125 but these are all on the low side and I would much rather be 10 amps hotter unless it is thin material or there are gaps that I need to fill. At work I am usually to far away from the machine I am using to be able to adjust it every time I change position so I have to run flat, vertical, and overhead all at the same heat. Normally that is somewhere between 120 to 125 amps.

    You said you normally run 3/32 at 85 and I normally run it at 90 for vertical so my recommendations might be on the hot side for how you like to weld. So the 110 for vertical, 120 for overhead, and 125 for flat should be pretty close to what you want. If you need to fill gaps you may need to go even colder then those recommendations.
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  5. #80
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWeldingConnector View Post
    A lot depends on welding position but it also depends on metal thickness and skill level. 125 amps should be within 10 amps of anything you want to do welding 1/8th stick 7018. Welding vertical on thin metal around 100 amps might be right. Vertical on thicker metal might be all the up in the 125 range. If the machine output is accurate I know that I will be able to weld vertical at 110, overhead at 120, and flat at 125 but these are all on the low side and I would much rather be 10 amps hotter unless it is thin material or there are gaps that I need to fill. At work I am usually to far away from the machine I am using to be able to adjust it every time I change position so I have to run flat, vertical, and overhead all at the same heat. Normally that is somewhere between 120 to 125 amps.

    You said you normally run 3/32 at 85 and I normally run it at 90 for vertical so my recommendations might be on the hot side for how you like to weld. So the 110 for vertical, 120 for overhead, and 125 for flat should be pretty close to what you want. If you need to fill gaps you may need to go even colder then those recommendations.
    That sounds like a good starting point for me. I took my AWS Structural test on vertical and overhead using only 3/32 7018 and the instructor never mentioned going less or more amps for different positions. Just 85 amps all the way. 3G I passed. 4G I failed, Slag inclusions. I had a hard time seeing the puddle.


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  6. #81
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWeldingConnector View Post
    A lot depends on welding position but it also depends on metal thickness and skill level. 125 amps should be within 10 amps of anything you want to do welding 1/8th stick 7018. Welding vertical on thin metal around 100 amps might be right. Vertical on thicker metal might be all the up in the 125 range. If the machine output is accurate I know that I will be able to weld vertical at 110, overhead at 120, and flat at 125 but these are all on the low side and I would much rather be 10 amps hotter unless it is thin material or there are gaps that I need to fill. At work I am usually to far away from the machine I am using to be able to adjust it every time I change position so I have to run flat, vertical, and overhead all at the same heat. Normally that is somewhere between 120 to 125 amps.

    You said you normally run 3/32 at 85 and I normally run it at 90 for vertical so my recommendations might be on the hot side for how you like to weld. So the 110 for vertical, 120 for overhead, and 125 for flat should be pretty close to what you want. If you need to fill gaps you may need to go even colder then those recommendations.
    I admire you! You weld all day then get on the forum and help other welders to become better welders. The world needs more people like you.


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  7. #82
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by davezelonis View Post
    That sounds like a good starting point for me. I took my AWS Structural test on vertical and overhead using only 3/32 7018 and the instructor never mentioned going less or more amps for different positions. Just 85 amps all the way. 3G I passed. 4G I failed, Slag inclusions. I had a hard time seeing the puddle.


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    I would think 85 amps would be the reason you had slag inclusions on the 4G plate. You need more amps to push the slag to the back of the puddle. Figuring out how to setup a 4G plate is the hardest part of the test in my opinion. Having a good weld really comes down to being in a comfortable position you can keep through the weld and being able to see the weld puddle to see what is happening. I usually set up 4G test plates up so that I am parallel to the plate. I have done them both pulling towards me and pushing away from myself but found it is easier to just turn the plate and run left to right. I have even seen guys spin the plate between each pass if allowed or running one pass one way and then running the next in the opposite direction in order to avoid having porosity build up from starting on the same end of the plate each time.
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  8. #83
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWeldingConnector View Post
    I would think 85 amps would be the reason you had slag inclusions on the 4G plate. You need more amps to push the slag to the back of the puddle. Figuring out how to setup a 4G plate is the hardest part of the test in my opinion. Having a good weld really comes down to being in a comfortable position you can keep through the weld and being able to see the weld puddle to see what is happening. I usually set up 4G test plates up so that I am parallel to the plate. I have done them both pulling towards me and pushing away from myself but found it is easier to just turn the plate and run left to right. I have even seen guys spin the plate between each pass if allowed or running one pass one way and then running the next in the opposite direction in order to avoid having porosity build up from starting on the same end of the plate each time.
    Interesting. I pulled it toward me and never really saw the back of the puddle. I basically did the test blindfolded.


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  9. #84
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by davezelonis View Post
    Interesting. I pulled it toward me and never really saw the back of the puddle. I basically did the test blindfolded.


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    I think that is the natural way people first attempt 4G tests because it is easier to prop and move towards your body. Its definitely possible to pass the test doing this but as you said you are almost welding in the blind. On the flip side moving away from your body on a 4G test feels more awkward at first but it gives a much better view of the puddle. That is why I turned the plate. I can see the puddle and still feel comfortable but it might also have to do with the fact that almost all the overhead welding I do on a day to day basis is fillet welds not a groove so going from side to side as opposed to towards or away from my body feels way more natural to me.
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  10. #85
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWeldingConnector View Post
    I think that is the natural way people first attempt 4G tests because it is easier to prop and move towards your body. Its definitely possible to pass the test doing this but as you said you are almost welding in the blind. On the flip side moving away from your body on a 4G test feels more awkward at first but it gives a much better view of the puddle. That is why I turned the plate. I can see the puddle and still feel comfortable but it might also have to do with the fact that almost all the overhead welding I do on a day to day basis is fillet welds not a groove so going from side to side as opposed to towards or away from my body feels way more natural to me.
    I just bought the 4 panel Tillman curtain wrap around and I need to make a test stand so I can practice overhead again. Just have to find steel now so I can make it.


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  11. #86
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWeldingConnector View Post
    That is usually a good indication that the amps are right but it also happens when running hot. Slag peels up and you are feeling like a rock star only to tap off the slag and see undercut. Most of the time I see that happen is vertical. When running overhead its not uncommon for the slag to just fall off but again its important to watch for undercut.
    That answer some of my questions too, thank you.
    Is not also possible that the base metal can move when cooling and catch the slag (angle or T)? (difficult to peel then)
    Also is the slag in need of some "cooking" so it act as a whole (as one piece) and cannot get entrapped in the bead sides, for instance ?

    Or is it just the way one push it to the back that allows it to be a one piece cover?
    Last edited by olek; Yesterday at 03:02 AM.

  12. #87
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Remember all machine settings are not the same. You may have it set at 85 but it could feel closer to 95. If possible always set heat on sample piece first and adjust accordingly. Do not go by someone else's mark on machine set your own.

  13. #88
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    I will buy that amp tester, and make movies.

    I like those welders with amps and volt display.

    Sure we need to know our machine and find our way to use it.

    It is certainly possible to setup a welding table in excel.
    Using classical formulas, the computation may not be too difficult.

  14. #89
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWeldingConnector View Post
    A lot depends on welding position but it also depends on metal thickness and skill level. 125 amps should be within 10 amps of anything you want to do welding 1/8th stick 7018. Welding vertical on thin metal around 100 amps might be right. Vertical on thicker metal might be all the up in the 125 range. If the machine output is accurate I know that I will be able to weld vertical at 110, overhead at 120, and flat at 125 but these are all on the low side and I would much rather be 10 amps hotter unless it is thin material or there are gaps that I need to fill. At work I am usually to far away from the machine I am using to be able to adjust it every time I change position so I have to run flat, vertical, and overhead all at the same heat. Normally that is somewhere between 120 to 125 amps.

    You said you normally run 3/32 at 85 and I normally run it at 90 for vertical so my recommendations might be on the hot side for how you like to weld. So the 110 for vertical, 120 for overhead, and 125 for flat should be pretty close to what you want. If you need to fill gaps you may need to go even colder then those recommendations.

    May we understand that you like to weld fast (relatively)? Différence between pro and occasional welder, I wish I could run fast and still control the puddle but I cannot really.
    Of so I loose control when the puddle enlarge and I accelerate..

  15. #90
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    Re: Welding square tubing together

    Quote Originally Posted by olek View Post
    May we understand that you like to weld fast (relatively)? Différence between pro and occasional welder, I wish I could run fast and still control the puddle but I cannot really.
    Of so I loose control when the puddle enlarge and I accelerate..
    I agree that a lot of it depends on the machine. I ran 3/32” 7018 at 85 amps on a big Lincoln transformer in school and when I tried it at home on a cheap inverter, 85 amps felt more like 95 amps.


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