Bought another SA200
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    CT
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    1,496

    Bought another SA200

    Picked up a basket case SA200, haven't run the numbers yet but it is reported to be a 1978. Guy swapped in a forklift motor, continental 4 , Think it is an F163 but might be a
    162. It has the thin tube 1/4 tutn oil filler and the starter is in the 1 oclock position. I thought I read that the 162 never used a high mount starter, can anyone confirm this info?
    motor is not totally up and running but has great compression, 130 across the board. The previous owner did cut out the vents to access the engine coupling, can this cause any problems and should I pull it down and reasemble using the method Kaye Sellon has posted. I know some people shortcut the teardown this way but don't know if it caused problems. Also has the hole in the top of the block for a distributor, I will have to decide wether to go Mag, or distributor. I have both on hand, any pros / cons? Over the next days when I get some time I will make some coil and exciter checks with the ohm meter and post up some pictures. hope to have the engine up and running soon.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Yukon, Oklahoma
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    136

    Re: Bought another SA200

    Great Find!!! Sounds like a plan!!
    Lincoln 305G
    Union Carbide Torch

    Don't Worry About the Mule~
    Load the Wagon!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Madison GA
    Posts
    91

    Re: Bought another SA200

    Could you give the details on how to check coil and exciter?
    Would like to check my 1944 200 before I start spending money on rebuilding the engine.
    Good luck with your project...

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Location
    Orange, TX
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    The 1/4 turn oil fill cap says F-163.

    My preference is mag over distributor.

    Starter location - F162 or 163 - is dictated by flywheel housing or engine-to-generator adapter plate used.

    Missing fins just means larger debris can get in. I hate it when somebody does that.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    SA-200 Blackface Code# 8638
    Star Jet 21-110

    Two term limit - one in office, one in jail.

  5. #5
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    KC51, I just go to the Weldmart site and conduct the testing they spell out, you should check it out and order their free CD. Lots of links to it on this site.
    I am posting some pictures, paid $250 for it, PO says motor was bad and he got this motor with reported 500 hrs. also got xtra carb, Mag that is a little rough, and starter. has a slightly dented hood and all sheet metal but no side doors. Compression checked out OK.
    I have the procedure to install a mag, anyone have the procedure to install a distributor. I would think you set it to the timing mark on #1 TDC compression stroke, drop in the distributor so it points to #1 spark wire and go. The mag will need some work to use so I would like to try to start the machine with the distributor for now to check it out some more. Can anybody confirm F163 from pictures. Also any major difference to a forklift motor. I will need to get some type of Idler as it is missing and I need an exciter cover, anybody have them and will part with them, PM me,
    Code is 8244, Serial is A-950082 so looks like report of 78 is really an 81 with Hex barrell. Thanks.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  6. #6
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Anyone ever put the distributor in from scratch?
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    southeast texas
    Posts
    327

    Re: Bought another SA200

    Yes it's for sure a 163. Bring No. 1 to tdc drop in distributor where rotor pointer is pointing to No. 1 on cap, snug the hold down clamp and give that a whirl. also distributor uses stranded plug wires where mag uses solid core. Hope this tiny bit of info helps
    1960 Redface SA-200 F 162
    1973 Black face SA-200 F 163 with 5" chop
    2013 Miller Trailblazer 275
    2013 GMC 3500 welding car

  8. #8
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    OK , may have found why previos owner could not get it started, It has been apart for the motor swap and aparently he did not know about the marks to line up the govenor gears, it was way out. Unfortanately it will need a front cover gasket and crank seal where the pulley mounts through the cover, will try to track down the numbers and order from NAPA or one of the online suppliers. Anybody have NAPA or Felpro numbers?
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  9. #9
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    I take it you decided to go with the mag seeing as the distributor doesn't give a hoot about the governor gear timing.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    SA-200 Blackface Code# 8638
    Star Jet 21-110

    Two term limit - one in office, one in jail.

  10. #10

    Re: Bought another SA200

    That's definitely an interesting engine swap. All the pics make it look to be a twin to my '81 163. I know alot of guys like the older ones but I don't have much to complain about my '81.

  11. #11

    Re: Bought another SA200

    By the way I've been reading this site for a long time and finally decided to sign up so I could put in my .02 so hello everyone.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    southeast texas
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    327

    Re: Bought another SA200

    Here's a Fel-Pro # for a front timing set 5418-1. Last one I bought was about 17 dollars from Napa
    1960 Redface SA-200 F 162
    1973 Black face SA-200 F 163 with 5" chop
    2013 Miller Trailblazer 275
    2013 GMC 3500 welding car

  13. #13
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Duane, what I decided was to put both in since I have to plug or cover one of the holes anyway and also gives me a backup ignition. LOL. More to become familiar with the distributor, not much too it just like a car. Now I lined up #4 and put in the Mag on TDC. Could not get it to fire off of the mag or the distributor. spark test/ indicator shows the wires to be firing. and I will have to check the timing again, but I have done this a few times now with good success so think I have it right. question is does the govenor have to be lined up with the marks on any particular stroke or cylinder position when installing? I was cranking the motor and shooting carb cleaner in the throat to see if it would fire, no other fuel source at this time. Heres some pictures of the timing marks if anyone isn't familiar, and also some pictures of what the rodents drag in. LOL. Timing marks look off but they are aligned, just a bad angle on the camera. Also discovered the best way to clean or work on the brushes is to pull the hole brush holder right out, lot easier.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  14. #14
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Bad picture on that govenor and gear, heres a better one.

    Thanks for that timig set #.

    Made my gaskets from last nights Pizza box, once I get it up and running/ welding, I 'll be more comfortable spending a couple bucks on it.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by kolot; 01-23-2012 at 11:22 PM.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  15. #15
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Had to look real hard at that photo 'cause at first glance it looked like the governor driven gear teeth aren't meshing with the camshaft gear.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    SA-200 Blackface Code# 8638
    Star Jet 21-110

    Two term limit - one in office, one in jail.

  16. #16
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Quote Originally Posted by kolot View Post
    question is does the govenor have to be lined up with the marks on any particular stroke or cylinder position when installing?
    #4 cylinder needs to be at TDC on the compression stroke (finger over the plug hole to check).


    Quote Originally Posted by kolot View Post
    Also discovered the best way to clean or work on the brushes is to pull the hole brush holder right out, lot easier.
    Yep.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    SA-200 Blackface Code# 8638
    Star Jet 21-110

    Two term limit - one in office, one in jail.

  17. #17
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Hello Duane, Those marks in the pictures aren't as clear as I would have liked, took them for those that haven't seen them and they are more confusing than helpfull, Those gears don't align flush, the cam gear sits back farther than the govenor so between that and the angle of the beveled gears it looks like they are off. I will try a different camera angle to get some clear pictures. Also sitting here I got to thinking, when I was bringing the # 4 up on compression I was using a wrench on the armature nut, I also now remember that I was turning the engine counter clockwise where as the starter throws it clockwise. could this have put me on the exhaust stroke instead of compression stroke. will reset in a couple days and try it again.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  18. #18
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneb55 View Post
    Had to look real hard at that photo 'cause at first glance it looked like the governor driven gear teeth aren't meshing with the camshaft gear.
    thats partly due to the bevel of the gear and alot to do with camera angle, my bad. LOL
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  19. #19
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Yeah I'm familiar with how the gears are offset (just set a mag tonight) but the photo angle and resulting optical illusion thru me for a little bit.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    SA-200 Blackface Code# 8638
    Star Jet 21-110

    Two term limit - one in office, one in jail.

  20. #20
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    what do you think about rolling the engine counterclockwise making compression in #4, did that mess me up, It was late but I think that is just what I did. that would put my timing off I believe,
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  21. #21
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Turning it backwards would yield compression out of the plug hole on the reversed power stroke and TDC would still be the same as TDC on the compression stroke.

    Did you bench test the mag for spark before setting it?
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    SA-200 Blackface Code# 8638
    Star Jet 21-110

    Two term limit - one in office, one in jail.

  22. #22
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    The Mag I am using is an American Bosch, I removed it from my Redface because it would fire and run great from a cold start then would cut out and not restart until it cooled off, that says bad coil to me. So i took the Mag to the Mag Guru and he quickly adjusted it and set the points, and then checked the coil, confirmed bad coil. Said if I just want to use it to test fire the machine should work till I want a rebuild. However I noticed when i bench tested the Mag that it did make a good spark(but eratic and not as strong as it cranks over) but the snap and spring are not what I remember them being. Maybe the Mag Guru didn't get it quite right. However I tried the distributor as well and still no fire. I did use a clear spark checker in line and found the wires to be firing. However I am using the plugs that came with the machine, they are old and I did not check the actual plug to see if it is firing. Also it was late and I was tired, just using carb cleaner sprayed in the carb while cranking. Working today and tonight so I will get back to it tomorrow and put a better effort into the whole procedure.
    Also set the mag to fire #4 on install, then also tried reclocking the wires with each 1 of the 4 on the # 4 position till I tried all wires. No pop at all.
    Last edited by kolot; 01-24-2012 at 06:47 PM.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

  23. #23
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Carb cleaner isn't engine fuel.
    That's just washing the cylinders for a dry start.

    From the sounds of things, (compression, spark, timing) I have a feeling that once the engine snorts something at least semi-combustible it'll be running. Give it a hit of propane.

    Good Luck
    Last edited by denrep; 01-24-2012 at 07:04 PM.

  24. #24
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Hi Kolot, I was looking at your gov. And how far forward it seems to be set in relation to the cam gear. Are you sure that the mag is able to reach far enough in to engage the gov. Slot?
    Mine seems to set back further and just about flush. You should have to play with it to get the mag to to insert into the slot. If it doesn't, the gov. Might be spinning and the mag not.
    Cheers kamotz

  25. #25
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    Re: Bought another SA200

    Govenor and Mag are OK and making spark, spark could be stronger. Camera angle and picture are decieving.

    Denrep, The carb cleaner will speed up and already running engine but may not be so good to fire one, I always forget about the option to squirt a little propane up there from the Bernzomatic torch, I'll try that tomorrow or hook up and Aux. fuel tank. By carb cleaner , I mean the aerosol spray can type. Do you think it wouldn't even as much as pop. Could be the hole problem. I don't like to use starting fluid on and engine unless I really have to , and then I usually save it for the diesels.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

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