Redface- Red-Blue face
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  1. #1
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    Feb 2012
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    Vernon Parish
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    Redface- Red-Blue face

    What is the differance in these two machines?

  2. #2
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    Jan 2009
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    Nolalu (near Thunder Bay) Ontario, Canada
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Probably only the colour of the faceplate after many years of fading in sunlight
    Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  3. #3
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    Feb 2012
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    Vernon Parish
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Oh also a 200f Ive noticed it has a black face. Ive heard everyone talk about the redface, and how good it is. I just havent seen that many red-blue face machines, and Ive seen several of the 200f with a black face but you dont hear folks talking them up like the red face. Guys Im in the market for a machine, Im not in a hurry to buy one so Im using this time to do my research. I dont want to buy one then find out one of the others is better. Ive looked back through about 6-7 pages and seen people asking about problems with their machine, or a rebuild question, but I havent seen anyone talking about the pros and cons of each. I may have not went back far enough to find the info Im looking for, so any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for yalls time.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2011
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    Plains of Texas
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    138

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Basically if it is a round barrel it has copper in the generator. This will make it an older redface machine. I believe these were made from 62 or 63 up until the early 70's.
    Black face machines were made from mid 72 or 73 on up until the 200G was introduced I believe. These machines have an octagon generator that has aluminum coated windings.
    The shunt coils are notorious for going out in theses machines. When this happens you only get a little spark when you weld. There is no telling how many have been replaced. The shunt coils cost about $450, plus installation, the last time I checked. You have to pull the barrel to press them out.
    There are also older machines such as the short hood machines that will give you great reliability if they have a few things done to upgrade them. There are literally thousands of Lincoln's out that that are 30,40 years old and more used every day.
    Last edited by robphillips00; 02-03-2012 at 09:11 AM.
    Miller Pro 300
    68 SA 200
    64 SAF 300
    305 G Lincoln gasser
    Miller 210

  5. #5
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    814

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Quote Originally Posted by robphillips00 View Post
    Basically if it is a round barrel it has copper in the generator. This will make it an older redface machine. I believe these were made from 62 or 63 up until the early 70's.
    Black face machines were made from mid 72 or 73 on up until the 200G was introduced I believe. These machines have an octagon generator that has aluminum coated windings.
    The shunt coils are notorious for going out in theses machines. When this happens you only get a little spark when you weld. There is no telling how many have been replaced. The shunt coils cost about $450, plus installation, the last time I checked. You have to pull the barrel to press them out.
    There are also older machines such as the short hood machines that will give you great reliability if they have a few things done to upgrade them. There are literally thousands of Lincoln's out that that are 30,40 years old and more used every day.
    No. What is referred to as the Blackface has a round barrel. The faceplate looks like the redface except for the colour. There is a lot of confusion about the Blackface but no confusion about the Redface.
    What you have described with the octagon generator is what is become known as a "Green Light" after the green running light in the faceplate.

    Stick to a Redface and you won't be confused and there is nothing that will trip you up
    Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  6. #6
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    Dec 2010
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    southeast texas
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    327

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    My redface (code 4150) is an original blue tint redface
    1960 Redface SA-200 F 162
    1973 Black face SA-200 F 163 with 5" chop
    2013 Miller Trailblazer 275
    2013 GMC 3500 welding car

  7. #7
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    Sep 2010
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    Taxxachusetts
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    294

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Good Morning all
    One of my goals this winter is to post a list showing the changes that occurred by year, code, serial number. I have been compiling this list from available sources and with the help of Nitesky and Kay S. But this winter has been mild enough that I have not been stuck inside long enough to start.
    This is a very in general short list. Some years only had a couple of codes that overlapped several years. Others had multiple codes in one year. Some codes are as simple a change as changing from a square head bolt to a hex head bolt. Others have multiple significant changes.


    Red Face / Blue tint
    F162 , 2 piece (split) control panel
    1959 - 1962
    Codes 4149,4150,4744,4745,4800,4815,4816

    Red Face
    F162 , 2 piece (split) control panel
    1963 - 1967
    Codes 4843 - 5841

    Black Face
    Change to F163 and 1 piece (solid) control panel.
    1967 - 1972
    Codes 5957 - 7242

    Green lite
    1973 - -------

  8. #8
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    TEXAS
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    I have a 1972 blackface. Weld terminals on the front panel, low mount starter, octagon barrel, generator (no altenator). It never had a green light. Been told it was a transition machine from the redfaces to the blackfaces.

  9. #9
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    Sep 2010
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    Taxxachusetts
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Lincweld
    1972 was a major transition year.Still had the "Black Face" name plate
    The book lists 11 code numbers for 1972.
    changed to the Octagon barrel, Aluminium shunt field coils, changed series field coils and interpole field coils, 12v neg. ground altenator....
    etc.
    73 the face plate changed to the "Green Light" face plate.
    electronic idle control .......

  10. #10
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    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plains of Texas
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    138

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Quote Originally Posted by lincweld View Post
    I have a 1972 blackface. Weld terminals on the front panel, low mount starter, octagon barrel, generator (no altenator). It never had a green light. Been told it was a transition machine from the redfaces to the blackfaces.
    I had one of these also. I have seen several more.
    There are so many of the sa 200 out there that have been cobbled together from other machines, that unless you know the history of it, you should be weary of it.
    Stick to a reputable shop and you should be fine.
    Miller Pro 300
    68 SA 200
    64 SAF 300
    305 G Lincoln gasser
    Miller 210

  11. #11
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    Apr 2010
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    Somewhere in New Hampshire
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    89

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    My '61 code #4150 is a red/blue face. Lincoln claims they have no record of producing them, which is odd. I've heard that the only machines featuring the red/blue tint plates were code # 4150 and had the f-162 continental.

    Two stories I've heard about them. One is that they were a transition from the older black face to the red face machines. The second is that they were special ordered by a large pipeline company that wanted their machines to stand out.

    Either way they are essentially an early red face.
    Miller Dialarc 250
    '61 Lincoln SA 200 Red/Blue Face
    Hobart Handler 175
    Smith O/A

    If you cant dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with B.S.!

  12. #12
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    Feb 2009
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    Lafayette, Louisiana
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Mine is Serial # A716412 Code # 7214 and it's listed as a 1973. Black Face, NO green light, R-57 idler with an alternator.
    Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.
    -Cree Indian Proverb

    SA 200 Lincoln
    Victor Torches

  13. #13
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    Sep 2010
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    Taxxachusetts
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Gizzardgutz
    Thanks for getting me to check the notes.
    The "Blackface" did carry into 73.
    with codes 7178, 7214 and 7242.
    The "Greenlight"
    started with code 7243

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kentucky
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    4

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Straighten me out on this. A blackface machine with a round barrel generator is essentially the same as a redface. Yes/no?
    47 shorty
    48 shorty
    55 shorty
    70 redface

  15. #15
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    May 2010
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    Figuring the picking points of jelly donuts.
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Yes..........
    Dynasty 300
    V350-Pro w/pulse
    LF-72
    SG Spool gun

    LN-25
    1937 IdealArc-300
    PowerArc 200
    PowerArc 300
    3 SA-200s
    1800 Ellis saw
    Powermax 1250, CNC table




  16. #16
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Quote Originally Posted by andex View Post
    Lincweld
    1972 was a major transition year.Still had the "Black Face" name plate
    The book lists 11 code numbers for 1972.
    changed to the Octagon barrel, Aluminium shunt field coils, changed series field coils and interpole field coils, 12v neg. ground altenator....
    etc.
    73 the face plate changed to the "Green Light" face plate.
    electronic idle control .......
    Just went out and checked. my machine has code: 7168 and serial # A-691786. I don't have any information on codes. My machine had a generator not altenator. Do you think this code or series of machines came just after the blackface round barrel machines ? Thanks for any help!

  17. #17
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    May 2010
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    Figuring the picking points of jelly donuts.
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Quote Originally Posted by lincweld View Post
    Do you think this code or series of machines came just after the blackface round barrel machines ? Thanks for any help!
    Yes. Your machine is a transition between the Black Face round barrel, and the Green Light machines.
    Dynasty 300
    V350-Pro w/pulse
    LF-72
    SG Spool gun

    LN-25
    1937 IdealArc-300
    PowerArc 200
    PowerArc 300
    3 SA-200s
    1800 Ellis saw
    Powermax 1250, CNC table




  18. #18
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    Sep 2010
    Location
    Taxxachusetts
    Posts
    294

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Quote Originally Posted by daCat View Post
    Straighten me out on this. A blackface machine with a round barrel generator is essentially the same as a redface. Yes/no?
    Yes
    This seems to be the question that I and many others have asked over and over. Why the change from the Red face plate to the Black face plate in 1967 code 6073 ?
    There were 2 obvious changes. 1; the control panel changed from 2 piece to 1.not to radical, easier to manufacture and stock 1 item. 2; Significant change, It was the end of the line for the F162 and the F163 was introduced. Everything else stayed the same.

    As was mentioned earlier, It is fairly easy to swap old out for new and to add newer features to older machines. So whats on it now may not be the way it was.

  19. #19
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    May 2012
    Location
    Davidsonville, MD
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    126

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    I know this is an old thread, but I would like to add that I own both machines and the Red/Blue face machine runs at a lower rpm. 1450rpm for the red/blue face and 1550 for my 1969 Red face IIRC.

  20. #20
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    Dec 2010
    Location
    southeast texas
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    327

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    You have to read the panel closely, it states 1550 with no load and 1450 under load. I was told the red-blue machines have a balanced armature.
    1960 Redface SA-200 F 162
    1973 Black face SA-200 F 163 with 5" chop
    2013 Miller Trailblazer 275
    2013 GMC 3500 welding car

  21. #21
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    Apr 2006
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    CT
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    1,508

    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    I recently picked up a Black Face, round barrell , low starter with R57 idler, believe it to be 1970 and from memory the code is 6633 on the face plate and number stamped on the barrell matches. Lead terminals are on the front.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    (2)Lincoln 225AC/DC portables, Miller Syncrowave 300, miller sidekick,Lincoln Idealarc 250,Miller 251 Mig, Miller 30A spool gun, Hende lathe, Horizontal bandsaw, pora band ,14FT enclosed trailer.SA200's

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