Installing Receptacle For Outlet
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  1. #1
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    Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Ok, so I'm installing a 6-50R receptacle in my garage for my 225 Lincoln AC Buzzbox. This thing is going directly in from scrap. I'm not installing this thing myself, I will be hiring a professional, but I want to understand exactly what is happening to get an idea of what should be done here.

    So far I understand that I..

    1. Need the Receptacle
    2. Need the 50-Amp Breaker for the Plug
    3. Need the Wiring from the box to the Receptacle
    4. Need a Conduit?


    I'm unsure as to what kind of wiring I'll be needing. I've heard two types so far. One is a Romex 6/3 wire, another is a AWG #6 with 2 other wires minus the sheath so I can pull em' through a conduit? I was looking at a 6/3 Romex and the 3 wire came bundled in a protective outer insulation and looked like that was the winner for my setup.

    But then I noticed in my garage everything was ran through conduits, and when I was searching on google, I noticed a few posts saying that pulling wires that are bundled up like that are a no-no when a conduit is involved? I should just buy the the 3 wires and yank em' through the conduit and hook them up one by one? ****EDIT***** |||Confused on differences between THHN #6 Wiring with Conduit and Romex 6/3 Wiring.|||

    As you can tell I'm pretty confused about this here wire situation. Any light shed on the matter would be greatly appreciated. Again I'm not doing this myself I'm hiring a professional, but if someone could explain to me what it is I actually need that would be awesome for two reasons.

    1. I'll save by being able to buy the materials myself
    2. I'll understand what is happening and will appease my tinkering interests


    Thanks in advance guys!
    Last edited by Devareaux; 03-14-2012 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Clarification

  2. #2
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    This isn't that hard- and since you are going to do almost 99% of the work; pulling the wires and running the conduit.. why not connect the wires?

    Where in LA are you?
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  3. #3
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    This isn't that hard- and since you are going to do almost 99% of the work; pulling the wires and running the conduit.. why not connect the wires?

    Where in LA are you?
    Well because first off I'm not even sure what type of wire I'm supposed to use. I want to use the THHN Wire and Conduit, but I have no idea what I'm suppose to do with those wires. Do I buy 3 THHN 6 gauge wires and run them through a conduit and connect each line to HOT-HOT-GROUND?

    On the 6/3 Romex wire, all the wires I need are all within the insulation and have color coded jacket on them. So it's pretty straight forward and easy to understand on what to do. Yet I read somewhere on the net that these Romex insulated wires aren't good for conduits because they aren't up to code. It's better to use the THHN wires but I have no idea how to work those types of wires.

    The reason for me just hiring a professional is to watch him do the work and get an understanding of what is going on and how to do it. I'm more interested in learning than anything, but I don't want to learn the improper way of doing it. Bad habits are hard to break and it's better not to learn them at all.

  4. #4
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    This isn't that hard- and since you are going to do almost 99% of the work; pulling the wires and running the conduit.. why not connect the wires?

    Where in LA are you?
    BTW I'm in San Pedro in Los Angeles

  5. #5
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    How long is the run?
    Ed Conley
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  6. #6
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    How long is the run?
    No more than 50 feet. With all the twists and turns we might have to encounter, I'd say maximum of 90 feet.

  7. #7
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    How much is this going to save you?

    Did you already get a Sparkie to say "OK" to you doing all this work and him just connecting everything at the Panel and receptacle?

    Anyhoo-

    Yes, just pull the individual wires
    2- Black or a Red and Black
    1- Ground

    You'll also need the correct size conduit, brackets etc etc.

    May be worth it to just have him do everything- guess depends on how much he wants to charge for this one Circuit.

    but again iffin' you do all the conduit and pull the wires you are 99% done anyway, might as well just finish and save all the $$

    Ed Conley
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  8. #8
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    How much is this going to save you?

    Did you already get a Sparkie to say "OK" to you doing all this work and him just connecting everything at the Panel and receptacle?

    Anyhoo-

    Yes, just pull the individual wires
    2- Black or a Red and Black
    1- Ground

    You'll also need the correct size conduit, brackets etc etc.

    May be worth it to just have him do everything- guess depends on how much he wants to charge for this one Circuit.

    but again iffin' you do all the conduit and pull the wires you are 99% done anyway, might as well just finish and save all the $$

    Well basically what I'm doing is, I'm going to be doing a mock installation, then I'm basically hiring a Licensed Electrician to do the real thing for me. I just want to complete the steps and see if what I was doing was on the right tracks as to what a real electrician would do. After I'm done with my welding classes I think I might end up taking some electrical courses.

    For now though, I just want to hook up a receptacle outlet so I can get to slinging some welds onto some projects I got floating around inside this tinker dome.


    Just to recap.

    1. Buy three 6 Gauge THHN Wire
    2. Buy Correct sized Conduit
    3. Buy Correct Mounts/etc
    4. One 6 Gauge Wire Red (hot wire)
    5. One 6 Gauge Wire Black (hot wire)
    6. One 6 Gauge Wire Green (ground wire)
    7. One 6 Gauge Wire White (Neutral) {Or Bare Copper Ground}????(not sure if i need this step)
    8. 50 Amp Breaker for Circuit Box
    9. 250v Nema 6-50R Receptacle outlet



    Get the wires together and pull them through the circuit, one end safely routed towards my breaker box, one end routed safely towards my outlet destination. Attached to correct places, all fittings firm and safely connected, all mounts and routes safely and firmly fitted as well. Turn power back on, test out the outlet, have a beer!!!??
    Last edited by Devareaux; 03-14-2012 at 06:11 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Three wire 230v circuit so you won't use a neutral. Go with the black, white and green.

    As Ed has said, cut your costs because this isn't rocket science by any means. Do you really need a licensed electrician to hook the two hots to your breaker...there are only two lugs on that breaker...and the ground to the grounding bar as well as the receptacle?

    Only matter you may have left out is to make sure the conduit attaches to your service panel through the top, side or bottom of the box via a screw connection with a slip on fitting for your conduit to seat into and be fastened by a screw at that location. I find it easier to make that connection prior to pulling the circuit in through the conduit, but if you can do it without the connection and attach later without busting up our conduit and such...so be it. Fitting on the right for panel connection
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  10. #10
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by WyoRoy View Post
    Three wire 230v circuit so you won't use a neutral. Go with the black, white and green.

    As Ed has said, cut your costs because this isn't rocket science by any means. Do you really need a licensed electrician to hook the two hots to your breaker...there are only two lugs on that breaker...and the ground to the grounding bar as well as the receptacle?

    Only matter you may have left out is to make sure the conduit attaches to your service panel through the top, side or bottom of the box via a screw connection with a slip on fitting for your conduit to seat into and be fastened by a screw at that location. I find it easier to make that connection prior to pulling the circuit in through the conduit, but if you can do it without the connection and attach later without busting up our conduit and such...so be it. Fitting on the right for panel connection
    http://www.hercules-online.com/catal...crew_Type_.jpg
    Cool thanks alot guys.

    Reason for the Electrician also is because there might be other variables that I'm not including in this conversation for the very reason of my not knowing about them. I want the electrician to make sure it goes smooth so I don't try to install something onto a breaker that might not be able to handle everything on it alongside my welding outlet as well.

    Stuff like this are the types of things I don't know about and would feel better if a Licensed guy came in and took care of everything for me. Plus I have some extra money sitting around that I can burn from my projects I do.

  11. #11
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    First post here. Hope I can help a little.
    I am not an electrician but I just finished running wire for my garage including a 50amp circuit for the same welder.

    Let's start at the receptacle. As you said you need a 6-50R. This has holes for two hot legs and a ground. For most welders you only need a three wire cable; two hots and one ground. Four wire systems have an additional neutral wire to supply the 220V supply as well as a 120V line. Appliances like stove use four wire systems; 220V for the appliance and 120V to run the electronics like the display. You can run four wires, but the neutral will not be hooked up at the outlet. You would just put a wire nut on it and stuff it in the box.
    I would recommend getting the deepest box you can find. 6 gauge wire is not easy to fold into a box. You should use pigtails to connect the receptical to the wiring. Basically pigtails are 6" pieces if wire running from the receptical to the outlet. Screw on end to the outlet and use a wire nut to connect them to the feed. Use a pair of pliers to twist the wires at least 3 times then put the wire but on. Fold the wires into a "Z" pattern and push them into the box. Then screw in the outlet.
    You can run the wire in conduit or in the walls. Conduit is easier in existing installations. I ran mine in the wall because I was running 3 additional 20amp circuits and didn't wan that many pipes running on the walls. If you run it in the walls you can use 6/2 Romex. Romex is for dry installations only. All of the conductors and the ground are packaged in the outer insulation. You will need to cut the drywall to expose the studs. You should only need to cut a strip about 6-8" wide the length of the run. Get a 7/8 stubby auger bit to drill through the studs. You should be able to find them in the electrical isle at Lowes/Home Depot. Drill the holes in the center of the stud. This minimizes the chances that someone will put a nail through the wire. You also want to use nail plates. These are small pieces of steel the prevent putting a nail into the wire. If you need to run the wire from the garage into the basement you will need to drill through the sill plate. After you run you wire fill the hole with a fire stop (caulk or foam) to help minimize chances to fire spreading between floors. You will need to secure the cable within 6-8 inches of the hole on each side and where it enters a box. You will also want to secure it along any long runs or turns. Basically you want to minimize/eliminate movement.

    I have never used conduit, but this is my understanding. I think you can use Romex in conduit ad long as it is in a dry location and is sized properly. Basically you are trying to prevent the wires from overheating and starting a fire. I would never run Romex in conduit. It seems a waste of money and effort. You can use the THHN wire in the conduit. I can't help on sizing the conduit. There are tables that take thinks like wire size, wire type, circuit size, length of run, duty cycle, ect into account to determine which size conduit you need. Again you would need a 6 gauge black, a 6 gauge red and a 10 gauge (i think) ground. Use connectors to joint the conduit and cable clamps everywhere you go into a box. If you are running the wires in the basement to your box I think you still need to keep the wires in the conduit. This is to reduce chances of damaging the insulation and starting a fire.
    At the panel throw the main breaker. This deenergizes the panel, but the mains are still hot! Be careful, don't touch anything around the mains. Remove the cover. If you use Romex run it into the box and use an nm clamp to secure it. Cut the outer insulation off about an inch into the box. Run the wires down one side of the box. Connect the ground to the ground bar. Strip about 1/2" of insulation off each hot leg and attach them to the two poles on your 50amp breaker. Snap the breaker in place make sure everything is tight and neatly run and reattach the cover and turn everything back on.

    It is really not as bad as it sounds. I had an electrician buddy look at everything before I hooked into the panel. He everything looked good.

    Sorry for the long post and spelling errors. I'm typing on my phone. Hope this helps.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Not knowing the type of panel, (there are a lot of split bus panels out there), it should be noted that the entire upper bus remains energized on some panels unless the meter is pulled. This is also the bus where the 2 pole breakers go, and six is the limit. Brush against a live bus with your bare grounding wire or your arm you might get a nasty surprise.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Thanks guys I really appreciate the help on this one.

  14. #14
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    6 gauge 2 wire romex (two wire will have a black, a red, and either a green or bare.) Black is hot, red is hot, and green or bare is ground

  15. #15
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Ok, I have to jump in on this one. First off, you either use 6/3 Romex or single conductors in a conduit. The NEC(National Electrical Code) does not allow you run romex in conduit. 6/3 Romex contains 3 conductors(black, white, and bare ground). If it were me, I would run single conductors in conduit for protection reasons. You need to run 1" minimum conduit with three seperate conductors in the conduit. You will probably have a hard time finding any color other than black so just make sure you identify the conductor you use as the ground with green tape. The 2 "hot" conductors do not need to be identified individually. soul5446 you are completely wrong on your last post. Get an electrician to make the final connection of the conduit and the conductors to the panel as you can get yourself in trouble really fast by working in a live panel without proper PPE. If you have any specific questions for me PM me. I am a union electrician with over 20 years experience to pull from.

  16. #16
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    Re: Installing Receptacle For Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky0908 View Post
    Ok, I have to jump in on this one. First off, you either use 6/3 Romex or single conductors in a conduit. The NEC(National Electrical Code) does not allow you run romex in conduit. 6/3 Romex contains 3 conductors(black, white, and bare ground). If it were me, I would run single conductors in conduit for protection reasons. You need to run 1" minimum conduit with three seperate conductors in the conduit. You will probably have a hard time finding any color other than black so just make sure you identify the conductor you use as the ground with green tape. The 2 "hot" conductors do not need to be identified individually. soul5446 you are completely wrong on your last post. Get an electrician to make the final connection of the conduit and the conductors to the panel as you can get yourself in trouble really fast by working in a live panel without proper PPE. If you have any specific questions for me PM me. I am a union electrician with over 20 years experience to pull from.
    Hey Sparky Not trying to start anything but since you are correcting people here are some facts:

    6/3 Romex contains 4 conductors, a black, red and white #6 and a bare #10. 6/2 Romex contains 3 conductors, a black and a white #6 and a bare #10. Only insulated conductors are counted when cables and cords are labeled.

    Also being a Union electrician you must know that re-identification of any conductor smaller than #4 AWG installed in a raceway is forbidden.

    You do not need a #6 grounding conductor for a 50 amp circuit, table 250-122 tells us that a #10 copper grounding conductor is good up to 60 amps.

    3/4" conduit (emt) is sufficient for two #6 THWNs and a #10. In fact, it is sufficient for 3 6's and a 10, or 4 6's, (although for 4 6s I wouldn't attempt in 3'4" for more than a few feet).

    Romex is allowed in conduit if properly sized, and conduit is also allowed to be used in incomplete sections for protection of cables (Romex) as long as protection from abrasion is provided at entry points using approved bushings.

    Big B, licensed electrical contractor and member of the International Association of Electrical Inspectors.
    Last edited by bigb; 03-23-2012 at 10:08 PM.
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