flux core with argon?

[TBD]

would flux core weld OK with 100% argon?

[steve28]

umm..... no, 75/25 mix if you are talking dual shield fluxcore.

[MAC702]

or CO2, depending on the wire. But regular self-shielded needs no gas.

[yogie]

Originally Posted by MAC702

or CO2, depending on the wire. But regular self-shielded needs no gas.

yeah what he said, thats always been my experiance with flux core and for the pureists out there, 1.2mm wire.

[pulser]

Rules are made to be broken, particularly by hobby welders, but the correct thing to do would be to consult the manufacture's recommendations.

For critcal applications, the use of the wrong gas can affect the loss/transfer of important elements from the filler to the weld which can significantly affect the mechanical properties of the weld. For example, if the wire is designed to run with 100% CO2 and you run something rich in Argon like 98% Ar/ 2% O2, less elements from the wire will be lost in the arc, making the weld metal rich in these elements and changing the strength, hardness, ductility, and impact toughness of the weld.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by pulser

Rules are made to be broken, particularly by hobby welders, but the correct thing to do would be to consult the manufacture's recommendations.

For critcal applications, the use of the wrong gas can affect the loss/transfer of important elements from the filler to the weld which can significantly affect the mechanical properties of the weld. For example, if the wire is designed to run with 100% CO2 and you run something rich in Argon like 98% Ar/ 2% O2, less elements from the wire will be lost in the arc, making the weld metal rich in these elements and changing the strength, hardness, ductility, and impact toughness of the weld.

Hobby welders invented walking the cup, not manufacturers.........but I'll leave it to all yall welding Gods. I wouldn't have said it if I couldn't back it up.

[David R]

I was using fabshield 7100 Ultra with C02. At lower heat levels acording to the chart, it would not spray at all. I was getting globular transfer. Welding supply store told me to use AG8. I tried it and on lower settings it seemed to work fine, but at higher settings, there was a crack right down the middle of the weld. Like pulsar said, If its designed for Co2, it will run best that way. Running self shielded with gas throws the metal composition off because there are things in the weld made to be sacraficed. With gas they stay in the weld. It changes the properties.

This is my version of what pulsar said.

[Dipper Welder64]

Look at the second page of link it shows types of gas for the wire specified.

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ature/e754.pdf

[David R]

I read the book last night in the "Library". It says Co2 gives globular transfer and deep penatration. At arc tempitures, Co3 dissacociates into CO and O2. The O2 reacts with the more reactive elements in the weld pool and float to the surface with the slag. Mn, Si and Al are contained in the core as deoxidizers to compensate for the oxadizing effect of the Co2. Phew!

The higher the percentage of an inert gas in a mixture with Co2, the greater transfer percentage of deoxidizers in the deposit.

Welds made with C/25 generally have higher tensil and yield strength and approach spray transfer. Argon /Co2 mixtures are prefered for out of position welding.

All parafrased from the Lincoln procedure handbook of arcwelding.

My speeling is the pitts today, sorry.

David

[MAC702]

And all that sounds appropriate for solid wire, not flux-cored, though.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Hey Bro. Yes 100% Argon is the way to go with flux core for good quality welding with .035-.045 wire. I guess you allready know that your puddle appearance during the welding process will not be the same as with standard solid wire welding. Once you get used to this picture you'll have good looking quality welds with pure Argon and flux core. Stay cool and weld clean.

[weldrwomn]

Originally Posted by Gregg(Spiderman)

Hey Bro. Yes 100% Argon is the way to go with flux core for good quality welding with .035-.045 wire. I guess you allready know that your puddle appearance during the welding process will not be the same as with standard solid wire welding. Once you get used to this picture you'll have good looking quality welds with pure Argon and flux core. Stay cool and weld clean.

I would like for you to cite your sources because it has been stated time and time again that self-shielding flux-cored wire is NOT meant to be welded with an external shielding gas. There aren't any Flux-cored wires (that I know of, and I know of a lot of flux-cored wires) that are meant to be run with straight argon. If you are welding anything that has structurally important welds, you should really use the wire in the manner in which it was designed. There are more examples that I can count in which the wrong shielding gas was used with a particular wire that caused weld failure in structures like buildings (where the welds are important).

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by weldrwomn

I would like for you to cite your sources because it has been stated time and time again that self-shielding flux-cored wire is NOT meant to be welded with an external shielding gas. There aren't any Flux-cored wires (that I know of, and I know of a lot of flux-cored wires) that are meant to be run with straight argon. If you are welding anything that has structurally important welds, you should really use the wire in the manner in which it was designed. There are more examples that I can count in which the wrong shielding gas was used with a particular wire that caused weld failure in structures like buildings (where the welds are important).

Well guy, I know what the specs say, and I know what also passes in Aerospace, Paper, Power, Chemical, and ShipYard Industries. Some people may get a kick out of bullshi***** on the net........I'm not one of them. I don't know what you've read or who you heard say what or even what you've seen. What I do know is that Argon is the iceing on the cake doing vertical up and capping w/ 1in or better weaves. I'm also talking about .045 and up in wire dia. I have no reason to lie. I have personally passed x-ray and bend tests with this same exact formula. I also position my collet about 1/8 -3/16 "out" from the cup. Guess you wouldn't know anything about that either, huh? You should try what I'm saying and if you have, and still doesn't work, you are obviously doing something wrong.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by Gregg(Spiderman)

Well guy, I know what the specs say, and I know what also passes in Aerospace, Paper, Power, Chemical, and ShipYard Industries. Some people may get a kick out of bullshi***** on the net........I'm not one of them. I don't know what you've read or who you heard say what or even what you've seen. What I do know is that Argon is the iceing on the cake doing vertical up and capping w/ 1in or better weaves. I'm also talking about .045 and up in wire dia. I have no reason to lie. I have personally passed x-ray and bend tests with this same exact formula. I also position my collet about 1/8 -3/16 "out" from the cup. Guess you wouldn't know anything about that either, huh? You should try what I'm saying and if you have, and still doesn't work, you are obviously doing something wrong.

FYI - My sources are over 20yrs in a profession that you can't bs me on, so the next time you get ready to beat somebody down with your welder's bible or what ever you've been reading you might consider actually trying the recommendation first.

[weldrwomn]

Originally Posted by Gregg(Spiderman)

Well guy, I know what the specs say, and I know what also passes in Aerospace, Paper, Power, Chemical, and ShipYard Industries. Some people may get a kick out of bullshi***** on the net........I'm not one of them. I don't know what you've read or who you heard say what or even what you've seen. What I do know is that Argon is the iceing on the cake doing vertical up and capping w/ 1in or better weaves. I'm also talking about .045 and up in wire dia. I have no reason to lie. I have personally passed x-ray and bend tests with this same exact formula. I also position my collet about 1/8 -3/16 "out" from the cup. Guess you wouldn't know anything about that either, huh? You should try what I'm saying and if you have, and still doesn't work, you are obviously doing something wrong.

First of all, I would like to point out the obvious - I am NOT a guy

Second, if you are so all-fired sure that Argon doesn't affect the end result with self-shielding wire, then tell me what your charpys and tensils yielded with and without the argon. Also, please inform all of us ignorami here exactly what wire you are using.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by weldrwomn

First of all, I would like to point out the obvious - I am NOT a guy

Second, if you are so all-fired sure that Argon doesn't affect the end result with self-shielding wire, then tell me what your charpys and tensils yielded with and without the argon. Also, please inform all of us ignorami here exactly what wire you are using.

Yeah, I didn't take the time to correct that once I discovdered you are a female, my bad, nor have I resulted in calling you names. You wanted to call me out on some thing that you obviously know a lot about but have no/none what so ever practical experience or else you would know what I am saying is true. As for the specifics on the wire, my last experience with flux and gas was about 5 or 6 yrs ago and all I remember was the dia., but an educated guess would be murrex, rarely did the mill use lincoln, but since we're on the subject you probably swear by their X-Calibur just because the literature says it's the best.....well, it's allright I can do the same thing and look better with a cheap *** air-co 7018....Anyway, let me know when you get tired of looking like an ignorami.

[MAC702]

I can see one person is making a lot more ASSumptions about the other...

[sn0border88]

I think you need to have a talk with lincon then, the stupid engineers over there decided they didnt need no 100% pure argon and would rather have 100% CO2 or 75/25 ran with their dualshield wire.

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/consumableseries.aspx?browse=104|13275|

In fact, I ask you to find one wire that is made for 100% argon and commonly used in the industries you mentioned.

[Supe]

I hope all those x-ray welds, power plant, aerospace, shipyard etc welds were run with a procedure qualified using 100% argon. If not, that's a lot of code violations that have gone undocumented.

[qaqc]

Gregg(Spiderman),
Wow! I just happened to stumble on this thread and obviously I have much to learn. As others have requested, please give us the details on the FCAW with 100% Ar. This will go a long way in helping us understand what it is you have accomplished. I'm not outright calling you a liar, but if all you can remember is the wire diameter than that holds no credibility. I find it very hard to believe that you have reinvented the wheel. That you have accomplished more than the manufacture with there unlimited resources. When performing welding to the applicable code Aerospace, Paper, Power, Chemical, and ShipYard Industries do not allow the use of 100% Ar (maybe that is something you did not know?) I would be willing to bet a weeks pay that you could not pass UT or RT or bends or tensile welding FCAW-G with 100% Ar. Just another ignorant persons opinion.


David R,
shielding gas has no influence on FCAW transfer mode. Additionally, FCAW is not broken down into short circuit, globular, and spray transfer modes. This only applies to GMAW

[weldrwomn]

Originally Posted by qaqc

Gregg(Spiderman),



David R,
shielding gas has no influence on FCAW transfer mode. Additionally, FCAW is not broken down into short circuit, globular, and spray transfer modes. This only applies to GMAW

I respectfully disagree. Short Circuit, Globular, and Spray Transfer modes, while specifically meant to describe solid wire transfer modes, can be used to describe FCAW. I also believe that the gas does have some influence in the transfer mode with FCAW. Mostly it is the voltage and amperage though.

[DesertRider33]

I would go with the gas recommended by the wire manufacturer, or no gas if that is what they recommend.

I've not heard of using pure argon with any kind of steel flux wire. Also, it is not generally accepted to use pure argon with solid wire on carbon steel either, though some do and have and it has been discussed here at length in the past. I have tried it and found it to be a significantly less than ideal gas for the application (in other words- it sucks). I have used CO2 with dual-sheild flux wire and it works fine, for that particular wire.

I also would think twice about arguing structural flux wire use with Weldrwomn, that seems to be her particular area of specialty and she's proven herself to be a smart cookie around here.

[DesertRider33]

David, have you tried pulse-spraying flux wire? It works good...

[David R]

Originally Posted by DesertRider33

David, have you tried pulse-spraying flux wire? It works good...

Tried it once when the machine was new..... NO luck. I also tried the pulse on pulse for aluminum with steel wire. Didn't work either, no dimes, just a mess. Hmmmm. Back to doing it how its supposed to be done.

David

[jamz]

Pure Argon will cause undercut along the edges and a high bead profile. CO2 or just O2 added to the gas make the arc hotter and wet out the edges. Argon in its pure form is generally used when welding on reactive metals or Aluminum and other "Oxide" heavy materials to keep the oxide layer from building up immediately.

To my knowledge FCAW does not have a short circuit transfer mode, only globular and spray. Transfer mode is usually determined by the type of flux in the center of the wire. Basic fluxes are globular and self shielding i believe, while Rutile fluxes are spray transfer with a vary narrow "globular" transfer range.

I tried pulse spray fcaw today at school, it seemed to work ok, but man was it ever finicky with stickout. I wonder if it carries over the same properties as non-P, or if there is any difference at all?