Oxy fuel video please critique

[Scott Young]

I was watching various videos and I can across this one. I haven't seen this method of dialing in a torch and wanted to hear your opinions of it.

I love the star reference. that is the first for me.

You Tube

You Tube

[Farmerboy]

it is basically the way I set my propane torch, (I probably do not mess as much with the "neutral flame" setting, and usually run it a little oxidized, as it seems to be a little hotter and pre heats faster IMO,

you have to step it up that way or the flame will blow it self out,

[Scott Young]

yeah, I stepped it up, till the whistle blows, but over the last few years that I have used propane, I haven't seen the star method. I do see the star when cutting, but I never connected it with a proper setup. I don't remember anyone checking for the star. They just keep adjusting the torch till the whistle and then find neutral and cut away. I was so intriqued by it I watched several other oxypropane videos and all of them mention it. Funny how you learn something new that was sitting right in front of your face.

[farmall]

Good video.

[TasBiker]

I've watch the guy on a couple of videos. They all seem to be informative but I'm new so what do I know.

[k45]

Originally Posted by TasBiker

I've watch the guy on a couple of videos. They all seem to be informative but I'm new so what do I know.

Well I expect he knows what he is talking about from a safety perspective.

I might like to get a oxy-fuel rig sometime but plasma does seem a lot easier and more simple to operate without as much risk.

Ken

[Scott Young]

Ken,

Oxy/fuel is very safe and is very versatile. Not only can you cut and gouge as with plasma, you can heat, weld, braze, and shape with an oxy/fuel setup. There is advantages and disadvantages for both, but if I we're limited to one it would be oxy/fuel.

[k45]

Originally Posted by Scott Young

Ken,

Oxy/fuel is very safe and is very versatile. Not only can you cut and gouge as with plasma, you can heat, weld, braze, and shape with an oxy/fuel setup. There is advantages and disadvantages for both, but if I we're limited to one it would be oxy/fuel.

Scott,

Thanks for the reply. Okay, let me be honest. I read the warnings about acetylene. I read the warnings about oxygen and I know how devastating and difficult to control an oxygen enhanced fire can be. I read the thread here about the experienced Canadian welder who was using an oxy/propane torch and something went wrong (a hot piece fell on the hose?) who was terribly burned, was kept in an induced coma for weeks, and has endured many skin grafts and months in the hospital. It's hard for me to feel that oxy/fuel is "very safe" as you say.

Sure, I know that things can go wrong with a MIG welder or a plasma torch, but the risks seem much lower than oxy/fuel to me. Perhaps I am just uninformed.

Explain to me where my concerns (fears) are wrong.

Yes, I understand that oxy/fuel is probably the most versatile, "all in one" solution.

Thanks,
Ken

[Scott Young]

Literally of the hundred of thousands of oxyfuel units used everyday, you will have some accidents. Metal working is potentially dangerous. You can have a hot bb fall down your shoe or shirt, you can have second degree and third degree burns from the uv and you can touch a hot piece of metal and have a scar, the plasma sparks can catch something of fire, you can jab the hot wire into your hand. I knew a guy that got staph from the mig wire burning a hole into his palm.

there are always horror stories, but when you think about every tom dick and harry farm has a set and is used in ver conbustionable places, and every rig truck has them, and every shop has multiple units if they were dangerous to use then more people would be getting blown up, burned up, and the good ole gubment would outlaw them.

It is good to have respect for a tool, but in reality the most dangerous tool to be used is a grinder with a wire brush. The second most dangerous is a grinder with a zip wheel. the third most dangerous is a grinder. More accidents are had by those top three.

[k45]

Originally Posted by Scott Young

It is good to have respect for a tool, but in reality the most dangerous tool to be used is a grinder with a wire brush. The second most dangerous is a grinder with a zip wheel. the third most dangerous is a grinder. More accidents are had by those top three.

Scott, thanks for the reply. Perhaps you are right, the horrors are overdone. But in the tools you list as "most dangerous", aren't the vast majority of the accidents very localized instead of 2nd and 3rd degree burns over someone's entire body?

Like you say, a hot bb or piece of slag can fall in your boot, but that's localized to an area on your foot. Add some loose oxygen and it could be your whole body? That's what worries me.

I don't know if it's true, but the folks at the LWS (who are trying to sell me a torch set) said that insurance companies would freak out if they knew you had acetylene.

I am not trying to argue with you, I really want to put this in it's proper perspective. I would sometime like to get a torch setup.

Ken

[Scott Young]

I forgot to add, jewelers, gunsmiths, artists, scrappers,plumbers, metal suppliers, etc also have them.

[Scott Young]

Insurance companies will freak out over your welder and plasma too. A can of gasoline is as dangerous as the o/a set. If you count the number of people that have whole body 2nd and 3rd degree burns from o/a i doubt you could fill a jury of your peers. Have you ever blown yourself off with compressed air? If you have you have added enough O2 to the fibers of your clothes that if you were to catch fire you would look like a roman candle. this is basic shop safety. My point is more people are maimed by lawn mowers than tradesmen with o/a. Have you ever heard of the guy that got eaten by an alligator while playing golf. I know there are a rash of stories about arms and legs being bitten off. Golf sounds pretty dangerous to me. I also heard about all the head injuries that resulted in concussions, brain hemmoraging and even death from golf balls hitting people. LOL I am poking fun, but you get my drift. You are either safe or you are not when you work. if you are a goof ball that is careless and are the type that is apt to drop the toilet lid on his...um..himself while he is in the little boys room then by all means don't get an o/a. you might blow up the neighborhood. LOL I don't think you are this type of fellow hence the reservations. Just respect the tools and the equipment and realize that they are men's tools and not boys' toys.

if you are interested in learning about oxy fuel talk to a shop and express your reservations and see if they will show you the ropes. offere to pay them for their time. I had a guy do just that. he was wanting to get a welder and came to the shop I worked at. We showed him an hours worth of information and off he went to buy a welder with real knowledge in hand. He came back a couple times and spent an hour or so each time. he paid the shop rate and was real happy to get hands on experience. He mostly wanted to watch and see how we did stuff. only when it was slow would the boss call a fitter or welder over to give him help.

[crab fisherman]

Ken,

A plasma cutter can be dangerous if you forget the work (ground clamp).

All tools can be dangerous if you forget simple steps. Procedures are what make things safe.

-Ian

[larphead]

Like I told our machinist today, I guess if I was afraid of lifting heavy steel, getting dirty, playing with fire, sweating and making lots of noise. I should have paid more attention in computer class and gotten myself a nice air conditioned office job.

Watch out for those paper cuts and carpal tunnel tho.

[SundownIII]

K45,

Guess you should be riding your bicycle to work tomorrow.

The gas tank on your car stores an equivalent amount of energy as that acetylene bottle.

[k45]

Originally Posted by SundownIII

K45,

Guess you should be riding your bicycle to work tomorrow.

The gas tank on your car stores an equivalent amount of energy as that acetylene bottle.

Sorry, but you are being ridiculous.

Yes, gasoline certainly has horrendous potential. HOWEVER,the last I checked my car, gasoline is not used in rubber hoses with open flame and potentially falling red hot pieces of metal.

I honestly asked for sensible input to put things in perspective, not silly comparisons. Besides, I'm retired: "work" is within walking distance, and I have a diesel truck

Ken

[k45]

Originally Posted by Scott Young

if you are interested in learning about oxy fuel talk to a shop and express your reservations and see if they will show you the ropes. offere to pay them for their time. I had a guy do just that. he was wanting to get a welder and came to the shop I worked at. We showed him an hours worth of information and off he went to buy a welder with real knowledge in hand. He came back a couple times and spent an hour or so each time. he paid the shop rate and was real happy to get hands on experience. He mostly wanted to watch and see how we did stuff. only when it was slow would the boss call a fitter or welder over to give him help.

Scott,

That's a good idea. I am on the list for the next voc-ed welding class, probably in fall or next winter. Hopefully they will cover O/A and maybe learning in that environment will be helpful.

Thanks,

Ken

[Scott Young]

When you begin using o/a or o/p you will wonder what why you didn't have this all your life. Just don't cut off lug nuts off a rim with a tire. That is very dangerous. Any welding on a rim with a tire is lethal and nearly everytime. I am just glad I didn't in my past. I can't say the danger is obvious which is why when you see the videos of it done in a controlled environment, you will be shocked.

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

[fran...k.]

We sure got distracted from critiqueing the video and the star aide in adjusting the flame.

I don't have smiths tip mix stuff but 10 psi on the fuel gas is like 8 psi more than I use even with airco tip mix.

The flame is quite long for a two piece nozzle. The instructions for my apparatus say to make the flame short and that is what they did at the shipyard I worked at for a short time.

The guy is wearing little glasses for protection but uses gloves to turn the knobs on the cylinders. While cutting plate from an edege isn't the most likely use to get a bunch of hot stuff in the face it seems overly safety oriented in some aspects but not so much about facial burns.

Does smith have something that can be used at four ounces to two pounds pressure like the haris stuff designed for natural gas. I will have to test out his technique but I seem to like natural gas more than propane.

fran

[B_C]

I watched the video in the beginning and the leak checking was good but got kinda
confusing for me on how to get to a neutral flame? I normally turn the fuel on till the
black soot goes away then add oxy till the cone forms with NO feathers.......hit the OXY cutting valve and make sure than all the previous flame settings stay the same...
its ready to use......And I turn the fuel off first not the oxy.......Maybe he made a mistake when he said oxy first?
the fuel would have stayed burning.......

[Scott Young]

BC, The video is propane not acetylene. There is no soot using propane. The rule I use is "When the whistle blows, it is time to go!" I really like the star reference. You can see the neutral flame by watching the cones. when you are adding oxygen they will be feathery and become sharp. when they get sharp you have a neutral flame. if you keep adding oxygen, then the cones will get smaller and lighter in color.

[Matt_Maguire]

Good video Scott. I'm not familiar with the smiths torch tips but I would imagine that 40-1 tip he is using is capable of several inch thick cut depths.

I've not seen the hand torch people fiddle that long but the plate burners will set the star and also use the star to judge the torch to work distance. The excess fuel being burned by the center oxy jet is what lets the natural gas and propane burn through the very thick sections they can cut.

Maybe Alfred will travel by and comment on how much you can fudge the 2 piece tip pressures, but I'm pretty sure they are not as forgiving as the O/A tips.

Matt

[Scott Young]

the two piece victors do the star thing too. I had to go out and check it out. I find there is more room in the o/a than there is in the propane. You can turn a number one down to cut thin metal and then turn it up and easily cut 1-2 inch and if you have the pressure and know how you can get away with cutting 3 inch with a number 1 using o/a. I keep two cutting heads when I am using o/a. one with a 00 in it and one with a 1 in it. Not so with propane. You don't have the same finesse and range. Oh you can cut thin and thick the same, but the final product may be a lot different(warpage). I have been using oxy propane since 2006-7. Not as long as others, I know, but still long enough to be able to tell you that each has it's own characteristics. i prefer the o/a over the o/p, but the cost and convenience of the o/p is the only reason I use it. I love the smell of o/a. I also like how it is quieter, but hey those are two things I have to have.