This weekends project, ideas welcome

[Vince_o]

This is a frame on one of my garden tractors that needs to be repaired. The frame is 3/16 thick, the crack is just infromt of where the power steering mounts. Ive read posts here on stopping cracks, fish plating ect. So what I thought Id do is fish plate the back, then weld up the crack in the front flapp it down so you cant tell from the out side it was welded. I only have my ranger to weld with, I know a mig would be better, still saving my pennies for one.

Any recomdations on rods to use or anything you all recomend would be helpful, TIA

[DSW]

I'd run the rod you run best out of position. For me if I had to use stick, that would be either 7014 or 7018 in 3/32". If you weld better with 6013 though, I wouldn't hesitate to use that for this.

[ThorsHammer]

Originally Posted by DSW

I'd run the rod you run best out of position. For me if I had to use stick, that would be either 7014 or 7018 in 3/32". If you weld better with 6013 though, I wouldn't hesitate to use that for this.

+1

it's not like you're going to be going 50 mph if it lets go again.

[kolot]

Is that the result of vibration over time, or has it taken some trauma either multiple or a single time? What I'm getting at is I wouldn't get to crazy with fish plates and such if you don't have to. Drain out the oil and Gas and put her either on it's side or at least semi flat , V it out a little and weld it up, with the rods already mentioned. Looks like and older unit that has made it this far. Might want to weld it up and then drill maybe a 5/16 or 3/8 hole at each end of the weld, supposed to end the tendency of the crack to spread or re occur. If that large hole in the frame where that crack may have originated from is unused or not needed, might want to fill it up.
A small fish plate could only help if it doesn't bother you to look at or get in the way. Inside the frame would be best if you can get at it.

[Coupebuilder]

+1 on kolot's post, one thing to add for crack repair..drill hole at end of crack AND if you have the material at hand take a ball bearing set it on the hole, provide some suport underneath ( like a steel body dolly) and give it a few smacks. That tends to compress the surrouning area and strengthen it a bit....maybe not neccessary for a lawn tractor but a good tid it of semi-useless info for future use lol. Anyone else use this method or is it an old wives tale?

[cd19]

I think those guys have it pretty much down. I might use 6011 if that is what I was in the mood for but whatever your good at, 6013 doesn't do much for me. I would weld a flat bar the about the same width as the bottom leg of the frame long ways over the crack as long as you can atleast a few inches on each side of the crack, a few stitch welds down the side, none on the ends of the flat bar.

[Insaneride]

Why would MIG be better for 3/16 thick?

[Vince_o]

Guys thanks a bunch for the help.

Kolot
I would say yes. My, at the time 7yr old, took the eng mounts out with no problems with a 9/16 ratchet wrench, with out my help. Also it may have had something to do with the tranny being broken and loose for years, typical for this model. They have Alum housings and break often, I did one just like the one posted and built a cast Iron rear to go in its place. Ill do the same for this one.

Coupebuilder
Your post may not be needed here as you say, but this is how one learns.

CD
I can run the 60's fairly well, not as well as the 70's.

Insane youve never seen me weld, LOL I just kinda thought this would be a better job for a mig, this is why Im still learning.

DSW
As always thanks for the help!

Thore
13.5 mph !!!!!!!!!

[kolot]

That is an impressive rear axle for a lawn tractor, must be 60's or early 70's, like the saying goes, " They don't make them like they used to" and that's because they don't make them where they used to.

[vwguy3]

The tractor(18 or 2072)is from the late 80s but the cast iron rear end is from the mid 60s until the early 80s
Us tractor guys callem garden tractors......lawn tractor sounds wimpy,even though they do mow grass.

[Canoe2fish]

Originally Posted by kolot

That is an impressive rear axle for a lawn tractor, must be 60's or early 70's, like the saying goes, " They don't make them like they used to" and that's because they don't make them where they used to.

Thats exactly what I was going to say

[Vince_o]

Well guys, after cleaning the rest of the oil and crap off the bottom of the frame, Ive decided to scrap this frame and get a good used one. Id have to fix 3 of the 4 eng plate holes and all but 2 of the transmission holes. Not worth the time for me.

Once again thanks for the help and quick come back.

[vwguy3]

Vince,sorry to hear you're throwing in the towel.

[Vince_o]

Mike

Rich is getting me a new frame sent to me. I may still try to fix it, it will be scraped, but stay here to fix another one.

Also Frank had some more trouble with his heart ths weekend so I didnt get you that quote. He only came in for a bit today but Ill have him do it for me tomorrow and send it to ya.

So we didnt fix the frame but we made a new set up for my youngest sons rake for the garden. We had fun.

[DanT]

Repaired or not, it's hard to beat a good day with dad in the shop. Welding at that age - looks like shorty needs his own welding gear

[SuperArc]

Another opinion....

I would not drill two other holes. Instead, I would v groove the crack to its full length and full depth. I would straighten up any distortion and any twist if it's evident. I would pre heat (because it's a tractor) to about 120-130 degrees C. I would fish plate ( double plate) at the top and bottom then post heat the plate to relieve stress. Then again, I over do everything. I'd use 7018 since its not a part or component that undergoes much stress, unlike a back hoe boom etc... Looking at the pic, it's a fairly large length crack in an area that shouldn't experience much stress to begin with. Therefore, 7018 should suffice.

[Drf255]

Originally Posted by DanT

Repaired or not, it's hard to beat a good day with dad in the shop. Welding at that age - looks like shorty needs his own welding gear

+1,000,000

Nothing better than that. Your son will never forget these times.

[farmersamm]

In post #16 SuperArc brings up the issue of stress relief.

A great deal of stress can be relieved in a weld by judicious use of your chipping hammer. I'm not saying beat it to death, but peening does relieve stress.

If I recall, post heating requires a pretty good deal of control. It involves graduating heat levels over a set period of time.

[Vince_o]

Super

My grinder wont fit in where the frame bends. I guess I need to get a carbide tip and eat it out.

Samm

The flex and prestress is over my head, but always willing to learn. The VW Guy has been helping me for years with the tractors, now hes giving me advise on my welding and such.

No matter what your into its always nice to find folks that will help you. And man do I need help!

[weldbead]

Originally Posted by Insaneride

Why would MIG be better for 3/16 thick?

indeed..or for anything else.?unless you had a long production weld to do....?

crank that ranger up, as others said 3/32 7018 around 80 amps, or you would be fine with 3/32 6010 or 6011 around 60 amps...grind a little vee..

[Oldiron2]

Originally Posted by Vince_o

Super

My grinder wont fit in where the frame bends. I guess I need to get a carbide tip and eat it out.

Samm

The flex and prestress is over my head, but always willing to learn. The VW Guy has been helping me for years with the tractors, now hes giving me advise on my welding and such.

No matter what your into its always nice to find folks that will help you. And man do I need help!

I mostly agree with the others. I would like to know if the frame is mild steel, higher carbon, or perhaps more alloyed steel. Mild is more forgiving wrt stress and heat treating, of course.
I also wouldn't drill end holes but would 'V' the crack as Superarc said. A small abrasive disc on an angle grinder, one on a mandrel on a die grinder, or even a Dremel tool with it's small cut-off wheels would probably work. A carbide burr on a die grinder would possibly be easier for tight places.
I'd do the 'V'-ing, lay good clean beads to fill the 'V's and carefully grind it flat, being sure to get smooth edges in the bolt holes and such so no "stress raisers" are present there. I'd want it so it looked original when done. If I thought the area needed more strength, I'd possibly make a new section to duplicate the flat areas and bolt them on using the engine mount bolts, and maybe add some stitch welds on the appropriate edges, so as not to form raisers on the original frame there.

Even though you're replacing the frame, this one should be a good subject for careful practice when you have the time. May even be worth more than a new one if you improve it with the work.

[DockMan30817]

When I was in paint and body they told us to drill a hole at end of crack to stop it from continuing to crack

[Oldiron2]

Originally Posted by DockMan30817

When I was in paint and body they told us to drill a hole at end of crack to stop it from continuing to crack

That's fine if you can't get to the end of it or with cast iron which is much more brittle and where just preheating can allow a crack to propagate but here it's better to grind it out and weld it all. Holes that remain are still large discontinuities or may not be filled in completely if welded over and cause later problems, so why use them if it's avoidable.

The hole works by giving a new, rounded surface just beyond the crack where the forces are spread out. They need to be 'clean' and smooth with no small discontinuity that can help the crack restart; no place where the forces are concentrated.

[Vince_o]

Ok so I tried again and I think I got it this time. Took a worn out Ziz wheel and was able to make a better grove in the crack. Now I need to flip it over and grind the weld off the back.

I was at work the other day and was thinking about this. Ol DSW has been a big help in pointing out that I need to get better at no making cold welds, LOL, so I welded the back and left it, then flipped the frame over and groved out the front and welded it. Dont know if this is right or not, but it was the only thing I could think of.

On the second pic I got the frame ready to fill in that big notch so I can put a hitch on it like the one pictured above.

[Vince_o]

Ok I really dont know what Im doing so can someone please help.

My crack is redeveloping. I wish I had the money and time to go to night school for this.

Anyway I welded in my fish plate in the back and on the front my crack redevlops. So i took the ziz wheel and groved out the crack again all the way to the fish plate. Welded in the hole and there still looks like the crack is still there, but real faint.

Im using 7018 3/32 on 90 amps # 5 setting on my ranger 8. The puddle looks good when Im welding , but cant figure out why my crack keeps coming back. Im getting penetration, but I must not be holding the rod right or something.

Really frustrating.