Header collector forming..any ideas?

[Coupebuilder]

We are going to be building custom headers very shortly and I would like to do everything in house. I have flanges covered, tube bends covered and looking for anyone who may have seen a machine that forms collectors?
I have made them by hand before and not too big a problem except they are fairly time consuming, buying them is an option but they are about 40 bucks a pair for what is essentialy 6 bucks or less in material. I have done multiple searches online and can't find any machine that would do them either. There are all sorts of tube end finishers for bells, swedges etc but nothing I can find to produce a 4 into 1 type of collector. I plan on starting with 2" primaries into a 3 1/2" dia. collector fenderwell style headers and then 1 3/4 into 3". Collectors and primaries will all be .065 wall mild steel to start eventually trying our hand at stainless if the market is there.
We have played with a former that is basically a 3 1/4 dia tube with 4 angled tubes welded to it and pressed into place in a hydraulic press, but it didn't work well at all. If anyone has seen or used a machine that forms them or has any ideas I would certainly appreciate it.

[LarryO]

Not quite what your looking for, but.........

Here is a good thread on making merge collectors.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2787713

Sometime its worth spending the $40 than what time it takes to hand form.

[Coupebuilder]

Thanks Larry, we have made the merge style in the past as well, and they are great for a real performance car header where you need to maximize performance. However, most of the guys I am dealing with are doing old school gasser style straight axle cars, where perfomance is not so much of an issue as just getting them to fit and look period correct. What we are up against is volume right now, we plan on making a few hundred sets a year so it would be (hopefully) easy to pay for a machine that does the work rather than buying them at 40 bucks a pop.

[rabidchimp]

Coupe, for your 4-1 collector for your 2" primaries, get about 18" of 2" OD round bar, and cut them up into four equal lengths (these will get welded together to form your collector die). If you've got a lathe, put an approximate 15 degree taper onto one end of each piece of RB. Of course, you can adjust the angle to suit the degree you want in your collectors. Next, lay two of the freshly turned pieces next to each other on a table, and weld them together lengthwise, making sure the square ends are flush with each other (now, you've got a 2-1 collector die). Next, make another 2-1 collector die, then stack this die onto the other die, make sure they're square to each other (square ends, and sides), and weld them together. Set them on end, and stick your mig into the center of the tapered ends, and fill up that void (will keep the tapered ends from coming together under repeated use).

Depending on the press you have, you'll have to devise a method by which to attach the die to the ram. If you're going to do these in an upright press, you'll probably need at least a 20 ton, and you probably won't want to pump it by hand. My buddy has a custom machine with a huge cylinder to form his collectors, but I don't know how much pressure it develops. Say your ram has a 1" OD rod....you could cut yourself a ~1" long section of 1"sch 40 pipe (after you drill a 3/8" hole through the center). Weld it to the backside (on center) of your new die, then match drill the end of your ram's rod, and use a short piece of RB to secure the die to the rod ,cotter pin style.

As far as material prep is concerned, make sure the end of the 3.5" tube you're going to form is completely smooth. With the pressing forces you'll be using, any little crack could cause an issue, and ruined material. For EACH collector, grease the die and tube. Press the die into the tube far enough so you'll be able to lap weld the ends of your 4-1 headers. Since the finished product will be a four sided shape, and look nothing like a spendy merge collector, you'll also want to make a tool to use to mimic the shape between two runners. Just heat and beat on each side, after you've welded the collector to the ends of your 4-1 collectors. If can provide these collectors to you to get you going. Just drop me a pm if you're interested. I've got pricing ready, and can help out with SBC flanges too, LS and otherwise.
-Aaron

[chimmike]

treadstone performance has a cast steel collector for sale that is pretty reasonable.

[★ NoBigDeal Fab ★]

Check out Www.stainlessheaders.com they have a ton of videos on the web page. You might find info on what your needing. When the time comes I'll be building my own headers on my 75 duster with a 5.7 Hemi twin turbo project. The other option give them a call and see if they sell the tooling you need.

[Coupebuilder]

Thanks for the replies, Rabid's idea is similair to what we have tried in a 25 ton press and just cant get them to look correct. With the volume I plan on doing I would much prefer to maek them in house (and thats jst my nature anyhow, hate to buy something simple if we can make it)
No Big Deal, give me a PM when you are ready, one of the first items we are building is fenderwell style headers for a 5.7 Hemi. If we can adapt something to help you I would be happy to work with you. Drawing the flanges right now for the cnc table. IF you have anything to add or help let me know, sounds like a fun project. The Hemi has been fun to work with but the Chrysler transmissions are a pain in the butt comapred to the GM stuff.

[★ NoBigDeal Fab ★]

Thanks for the offer, but that project has been on hold. As my CNC plasma has taken over the free time. I gotta get this thing running to make money to build the car.