Extension cords

[snrusnak]

I hope this is the right place for this question. How do I figure out if it's ok to use an extension cord on my welder(little Lincoln 120v MIG machine). I got a really heavy duty (either 8 or 10 gage) cord from work and put some 15a ends on it and would think this is suitable, but how can I be sure? And what about the length? I was going to cut it into a shorter(maybe 10') and longer(25') section to have two heavy duty cords, one for around the garage and one for projects further away. Would that be good? Thanks.

[DSW]

8 or 10 gauge cords are heavy enough to go 50-100' with a small machine like that with no issues. To me a 10' length of cord that heavy is fairly pointless. With a length that short, 12 ga will do everything an 8 or 10 ga would do. Even at 25', a good 12 ga cord is plenty. It's when you start going longer that you need to start worrying about voltage drop.

Chances are your outlet is only rated at 15 amps anyways and you'll trip the breaker long before voltage drop becomes an issue with a heavy cord like 10 or 8 ga. To get the most out of those small machines, they really need to be run on a dedicated 20 amp outlet. That means a 20 amp breaker on 12 ga wire with nothing else plugged into the circuit. Even then you'll be limited in output and it wouldn't surprise me to see you trip the 20 amp breaker on occasion.

[snrusnak]

Thanks for the info.

I wonder if I could just run a dedicated 12 ga line with 20 amp breaker from the box to the garage just for welding. I have tripped the 15 amp breaker for the line that goes to the outlet in the garage before. Only when the amps are turned up on the welder to weld like 1/8" or more. On thin wall with the amperage low it doesn't trip it.

I'll use the cord I got then but won't cut and make a short section. Now you have me wondering about the outlet though. I'm assuming changing a 15 amp breaker for a 20 amp breaker is a big no no? I assume it's probably 14 ga wire in the wall(remex or romex or whatever it is called).

It's only about 20 ft from the electrical panel to the garage where I'd want an outlet, I could easily run the wire and hook up the outlet, not sure about wiring it in at the panel though, maybe I know someone who could do that...

[DSW]

I certainly wouldn't change out a 15 amp breaker for a 20 amp one unless you know for sure what the wire is in the wall and if it would take the extra load. Breakers are there to protect the wires in the wall, not the items plugged into them. If it has a 15 amp breaker, then chances are it's 14 ga wire, and it would not be a good idea to install a larger breaker.

Running a dedicated 20 amp line would be your best bet. When in doubt it's always best to consult with an electrician. Paying someone to do the job is a lot cheaper than F'ing up and getting hurt or burning down your home.

[snrusnak]

^definitely, I understand. I think I'll find a buddy who knows a little more about this and run the line myself(based on what they recommend, I assume 12 ga or maybe even 10 ga) and just have them wire it in at the breaker.

With this, I shouldn't have any issues with my little MIG, right?

It's frustrating when I'm welding and the breaker gets tripped. Mostly I'm just worried because it's obvious I'm putting too much strain on the electrical system of the house(and like you said I don't want it going up in flames)...

[Broccoli1]

Since you are going to run a new line go ahead and use 10g wire and a 30amp Breaker.

Lincoln even recommends a 25 amp breaker for full output from the little 120v machines.

10g wire and a 30amp CB and you will never have any problems- this will also help with the long runs and the extension cord.

[snrusnak]

Awesome thanks! I'd rather spend a few more bucks and never have an issue...

[anickode]

If you're going to run a 30a line, might as well run it with 10/3 instead of 10/2. Put a 2 pole breaker on it. You can pull 120v 30 amps from either of the hots and the neutral, and have 240v 30a from the 2 hots. Then you've got 240 at your disposal down the road if you upgrade machines.

[snrusnak]

Thanks for the tip. That's slightly over my head. The 10/3 just has another hot, right(240v is just two 120v lines together, basically, right?). Then the "2 pole breaker" is just basically two breakers connected together?

I'll discuss that with whoever helps me install it...

[anickode]

Originally Posted by snrusnak

Thanks for the tip. That's slightly over my head. The 10/3 just has another hot, right(240v is just two 120v lines together, basically, right?). Then the "2 pole breaker" is just basically two breakers connected together?

I'll discuss that with whoever helps me install it...

Yep. The slots going down your breaker panel alternate legs, so 2 adjacent slots will have 120v each, 180 degrees out of phase, so connecting from one to the next gives you 240v.

A 3 wire + ground service includes 2 120v lines and a neutral, so you can pull either 120v (either hot to neutral) or 240v (hot to hot). The difference in price between 10/2 and 10/3 wire won't be huge, so it may be well worth it to do do it that way, and save yourself money down the road if you buy a bigger machine.

[snrusnak]

I don't think I'd ever buy a bigger machine for home use, but you never know. Would be nice to be setup for it.

[anickode]

Originally Posted by snrusnak

I don't think I'd ever buy a bigger machine for home use, but you never know. Would be nice to be setup for it.

Such a connection would also allow for something like a large compressor, or a generator hookup in event of a power outage. (only after shutting off your main breaker)

[snrusnak]

All great info, thanks! One thing I will get eventually is a larger compressor, the one I have doesn't do the job sometimes. Now I just need to track down someone who knows how to do this, I think I know a friend who can help me out...

[snrusnak]

I appreciate all the info here, I am finally going to run this outlet this weekend. I found out one of my best friend's is pretty good with electrical stuff. He ran a 220(240?) line for my friend's TIG a while ago.

I've talked to a lot of people, some obviously don't know what they are talking about, some might(but I don't know if they are right lol), and some somewhere in the middle.

Here''s what I've gathered:

Use a 20 amp outlet. I believe the welder is 20 amp(says 20 amp on the back on a sticker). I'll run 10 ga wire to the breaker(~20ft). Probably overkill but I'd rather spend an extra $15 and have heavier wire than needed. I'll use 10/3 so I will be able to hook up for 220(240?) if I ever want to. Here's something I'm confused on; my friend says I could use 10/2 for the 110v, AND for the 220(240?). He says a neutral is not needed for the 220(240?). Is this correct? Lastly, I will use a 30 amp breaker.

I've opened up the panel and looks very easy to turn off the main breaker, then snap in a 30 amp breaker, wire up the hot, neutral, and ground. And running the wire and wiring the outlet I am pretty familiar with.

Any thoughts before I commit and go to the store?

Thanks again!

[Oldendum]

You could use 10/2 wire with ground for either a 120 or 240, but not both. In other words, if you were to convert from 120 to 240 later, on a dedicated outlet, you could just reconnect (and label) the wires.

For 120/240, you need two hots, a neutral and a ground.

For 240, two hots and a ground

For 120, one hot, one neutral and one ground.

Edit: If you are in the big-box store, stop by their book rack and spend a few minutes reading through one of their electrical wiring books. Some are very well illustrated and have clear explanations. They will also show how to properly route and radius the wire and fasten it down.

[Broccoli1]

Your friend is correct, let him do his thing.

[snrusnak]

Originally Posted by Oldendum

You could use 10/2 wire with ground for either a 120 or 240, but not both. In other words, if you were to convert from 120 to 240 later, on a dedicated outlet, you could just reconnect (and label) the wires.

For 120/240, you need two hots, a neutral and a ground.

For 240, two hots and a ground

For 120, one hot, one neutral and one ground.

Edit: If you are in the big-box store, stop by their book rack and spend a few minutes reading through one of their electrical wiring books. Some are very well illustrated and have clear explanations. They will also show how to properly route and radius the wire and fasten it down.

Thanks for this explanation, makes sense now.

So would the purpose for 10/3 being if you are going to have a 120 outlet AND 240 outlet on the same circuit?

In my case I suppose I'll just get the 10/2, doesn't make sense to get 10/3 since it'll be the only outlet on the circuit. And down the road I can rewire/relabel for 240 if need be.

My freind is going to come up and help me do it, but I still like to get other opinions. Probably will do it sunday. I also want to buy the wire and run it before hand so all he has to help with is hooking it up. I think at this point I know what to do, but it'll be nice to have his help. Plus then that gives us an excuse to grill some burgers and drink a few beers

[Broccoli1]

Usually it is for a dual voltage receptacle
Like on an oven or 4-wire dryer receptacle where
The heating elements use 240v but the timer and lights
Uses 120v all from the same receptacle
Not 2 separate receptacles

[Oldendum]

Originally Posted by snrusnak

... So would the purpose for 10/3 being if you are going to have a 120 outlet AND 240 outlet on the same circuit?...

As Brocc says, it would usually be a dual voltage receptacle. But you could conceivably have a dual-voltage receptacle going to an extension cord. On the other end, you might have a 240V welder socket and a 120 socket for a grinder in a box.

[snrusnak]

Ok that makes sense. Going to the store tomorrow to buy what I need, and will post back after the weekend with if I got it done. I know this isn't an electrician forum but I appreciate the help lol. I've been practicing some welding each weekend finally(after owning the welder for a year and barely practicing....but that's what being a newly married man and new home owner will do lol) and I'm improving at least IMO lol. I know the welds aren't great but I'll get better. I'm having issues with throwing the 15 amp breakers though so I want to get this outlet run.

[JackLegg]

The main problem I see here is no one addressed the 15a ends he said he put on a # 8 or 10 drop cord. Thats a big no no.Need to step them up to the wire amp load capacity or at the very least the amp rating for the ends should be the same as the breaker you are running off of. Ken

[snrusnak]

Sorry JackLegg we got a little off topic, that extension cord is actually just sitting in my garage for now. This thread sort of turned into a thread about running a dedicated outlet to my garage for the welder. The extension cord I'll have to revisit later, but turns out for now I don't need it. One project at a time...

I also verified that extension cord is 10/3, so pretty heavy duty. I'll probably end up buying some good 20A ends for it. I assume that's the highest I can get? I'm not sure but guessing they don't have 25A or 30A ends for 110V(120V)?

[anickode]

there ARE 30a ends for 120v. They are most commonly used for RV power connections, although they're probably not worth the extra expense and difficulty of having an extension cord that only works in one place for one thing.

True 20 amp ends will have prongs that are perpendicular to each other. You never really see this in day-to-day applications because basically every 120v device in the US uses the 15a prong configuration. Those 15a plugs and receptacles handle 20 amps just fine, which is why it's legal to have 15a receptacles on a 20a circuit breaker in your house (otherwise, you wouldn't be able to plug anything into it)


My .02 would be to buy a good quality pair of 15 amp Hubbel or similar ends (the black and white ones that cost 12-15 bucks instead of 5-10). You'll have an extension cord that'll handle 20 amps with negligible voltage drop, and can be used for more than just your welder.

[Oldendum]

Anikode, I have a buttload of 20A, 120V outlets in my garage addition that have the vertical and horizontal leg socket on one side. At least 40 sockets, I kid you not! Five 20A breakers/circuits, if I recall correctly, though there's other stuff off the 100A sub-panel. Thank goodness I did the addition when copper was cheap and I was stupid.

I rather liked the Legrand/Pass & Seymour outlets. Not your everyday bargain-bin outlets.

[snrusnak]

I got some 15A ends(quality ones I believe....) from work along with the cord, just need to put them on. I assume they are good quality because they are what we use out in the field(large saw, electric mixer, etc...). I work for a commercial masonry contractor.

I can post more info from them once I get home, I have the box they came in.

I just noticed our office has 20A outlets. They look just like standard outlets but also have an additional slot perpendicular to one of the parallel slots. I believe that means it's 20A.