"This Is Going To Be Fun!! " got me thinking

[Brett]

Originally Posted by wello

like browny said the way workcover is now there wouldn't be much left for
the lawyers to get
workcover start's with who ever did the job then just adds zeros to the fine all the way to the top of the company
I know at my shop if one of fellas fu&ksup bad and workcover gets in on the act they get $2500 I get $25000 and so one till the top of the company chain or a million plus is reached

We get Work Cover coming past regularly , say once every 4 months , they have not come in but they take photos. We have never been contacted though.
They have a good plan where you can invite them in and they will very reasonably go through what they don't like and help you with a plan, advice and a schedule to get up to speed. (I've not done it but a friend has)
All without being hard nosed or bullying like they normally are,

[MAC702]

Since lawyers care nothing for ethics (in the pure sense of their profession, not in their personal sense), why shouldn't we be able to talk about legalities separately? No problem. If the two were inseparable, there'd be no need for laws or lawyers, we'd all act ethically.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by Weldordie

p.s.: Was this a theoretical or real event?

Simply hypothetical , it was more ,in the case where you fabricated something outside of your area of expertise and the client would have no expectation of you having expertise. Like a weldor (welder over here) knowing what metal to use in a brewery .

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

Actually ony one can be sued. I know of a case where two truck drivers hauling produce water in the oil field were working together on a haul. There was a problen with the sump at the dump site. One driver went down in the sump to to clear the problem. Hydrogen sulfide gas was present and he went down. The other driver went down to rescue him and went down. Both died. The wife of the second driver sued the wife and the estate of the first driver for wrongful death. I'm sure some ambulance chasing lawer talked her into it. How low can you get?

The wife of the second driver was probably told she NEEDED to sue the estate of the first. At the same time, she probably was suing the company that employed both drivers, as well as the company where the sump was located. That's what the "joint and several liability" clause does. It forces you to sue EVERYONE you can think of, and then puts the burden on the court and the defendants to get themselves out of the suit.

[Oldtimer]

Bob, you are right and I probably stated the case poorly. Both women suffered a tragedy. The law that allows suing someone for something that is not their fault and the lawyers that take advantage of it are wrong in my book. The first driver that died did not force the second driver to come to his aid and his wife who became the receiver of his estate certainly did not. The law that allows this was written to benefit lawyers and not the people involved in the situation. I have been involved in a couple of problems that involved lawyers and my opinion of lawyers isn't very high because of it. I realise there are honest and ethical lawyers practicing. I just haven't been party to their aquaintance. The particular ones I watched in action lied and distorted facts anyway they could to benefit their client. It was strictly for how much money the lawyer could make in fees, not for what was right or ethical. Maybe I'm wrong to still believe in ethical and moral deeds.

[SundownIII]

Oldtimer,

Overall, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of lawyers.

Unfortunately, many unethical and/or immoral parties, through their actions, have allowed the profession to flourish.

Just my .02

[denrep]

Originally Posted by Bob at WeldingMag

...That's what the "joint and several liability" clause does. It forces you to sue EVERYONE you can think of, and then puts the burden on the court and the defendants to get themselves out of the suit.

So basically as defendant, you're in same boat with whoever else Captain Plaintiff feels like herding aboard; and unless you are very proactive, can end up being sacrificed.

Fortunately parties (some party huh?!) can consent to stipulate the dismissal of any or all defendants.

Now... this is the time to use your "stinking axe". Once the captain realizes that below deck, there is a rabid axe wielding mongrel defendant, chopping a hole in the bottom of the dream boat, he can become very anxious to stipulate that the defendant disembark!

[MAC702]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

...The law that allows this was written to benefit lawyers and not the people involved in the situation. ...

Can't anybody sue anybody for any reason (The old 'Kill them all; let God sort them out' philosophy)? While it does make a mockery of our legal system (which understandably is the joke of the world) it seems admittingly difficult to write a law that clarifies who can be sued under what circumstances. So the lawyers do what they do, protect themselves and make money first; and if their client wins, too, then cool.

[denrep]

Originally Posted by MAC702

Can't anybody sue anybody for any reason...?

No.

There are organizations and individuals who carry immunity.
Coincidentally, some of them are closely involved with courts and lawmaking.

[daddy]

Originally Posted by Bob at WeldingMag

. That's what the "joint and several liability" clause does. It forces you to sue EVERYONE you can think of, and then puts the burden on the court and the defendants to get themselves out of the suit.

Guilty until proven innocent.

[MAC702]

That's true. Civil law has so many differences from criminal law. You might not ever go to jail for something, and still lose. It is judged by a preponderance of evidence, and a majority of the jury, not having to convince all 12 people beyond a doubt that you did something illegal.

Self-defense shootings often fall under this catagory.

Sometimes it works, though. Like OJ losing the civil suit.

[zapster]

OK now..
Lets do this..



This whole fiasco started with the whatchamacallits that certian individuals had a problem with.

People will die..
Boats will sink..

Yeah Yeah..

I've heard it all...

Now take into concideration that they are still "sitting there" not doing any harm to anyone...
And if and when they pass muster then what?

But years ago when I welded defence stuff for the Military..
That stuff was designed for one thing..

To kill people.
Plain and simple..

No problem then right??
I made stuff to sink boats no problem..
I made stuff to kill no problem..

Who is to say what is what anymore..
All depends on what you are doing and for who right?

This can go on forever..
Give it a rest and we will see what happens now won't we..


...zap!

[denrep]

Originally Posted by zapster

This whole fiasco started with the whatchamacallits that certian individuals had a problem with...

Zap,
I think you're reading something into this, that is not here.
Post #1 gave a hypothetical completely unrelated to your project.

I don't believe that any poster in this thread had your particular project in mind (I know I didn't); just a general discussion about law, from which we can all learn.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by denrep

Zap,
I think you're reading something into this, that is not here.
Post #1 gave a hypothetical completely unrelated to your project.

I don't believe that any poster in this thread had your particular project in mind (I know I didn't); just a general discussion about law, from which we can all learn.

May I echo Denreps statement Zap.
Whilst your thingamybobs ,they are not whatchamacallits (geddit roight) got me thinking about it , it was in no way directed towards you .

[MAC702]

I agree. I was hoping it WOULDN'T get tied to your project, Zap, because this is a good question for fabricators in general to discuss.

[Mandau]

Originally Posted by Brett

Please remember this is purely a legal Q. not a moral one.

Brett

Well,... I dont think the company will be sue... they have a safety issue with the dead driver... WHY they venture into area without proper safety, unless the company forget to tell them then the company will be properly cooked...