Most powerful welder for home shop?

[raferguson]

I have been thinking about and researching more powerful welders for my garage shop. I do not have three phase power. My house has 200 amp service, but my current welder outlet is only 50 amps. Not sure how big I can go on power draw without dimming the lights in the neighborhood, but my guess is that I would not want to go over 100 amps.

I have a Synchrowave 200 as my main welder, with a Lincoln 175 as my MIG welder. I am a metal sculptor, primarily working in copper, but also aluminum, stainless, and mild steel. Note that copper requires higher power than aluminum, and my current welder is probably maxed out at 1/8 inch copper. Up to now, my welders have had more than enough power, but I am starting to move to bigger projects. At the moment, I am inclined to think that if I move up, I would want to go to 300 amp output or more; not sure that I would notice the difference between 200 amps and 250 amps.

My research so far has suggested the following options:

Synchrowave 250 - will put out 300 amps, draws 100 amps at 230V

XMT 304 - will put out 300 amps, draws less than 100 amps at 230V

Lincoln Precision TIG 375 - will put out 375 amps, draws 102 amps at 230V

The XMT304 is a multiprocess inverter welder, without AC or HF, not ideal for TIG, has a good reputation, readily available on the used market for $1000-$1500, so not a huge investment. I don't know if older Synchrowave 250 welders will put out 300 amps. I have had suggestions for a more powerful TIG inverter welder, like a Dynasty 300 or 350. You may be aware of other good choices.

Note that a lot of the inverter welders derate for single phase; the XMT 304 is 400 amps at three phase, but only 300 amps for single phase power.

I do a lot of TIG welding, but use MIG for some projects. I have a Readywelder spoolgun, but doubt if it would be good for more than 300 amps. (I could not find a maximum current in the Readywelder manual).

This is really an idle question, in that I do not have a current project that requires more power than I have. When such a project arrives, I would make a decision based on that project, whatever I thought that I might see in the future, as well as looking at the used market. But inquiring minds want to know.......

[Rojodiablo]

300amps of DC tig is a LOT of weld heat. You might consider altering your style of welding a bit to do more passes to fill rather than going to the moon on the size of the unit. I'd second a 300/350A inverter tig unit as the biggest you are going to fit in a residential situation without phase inverters and all that for utilizing 3 phase power. For a Dynasty 300, you can get away with 60A input and run it wide open with no issues.

[rlitman]

I've used my Dynasty 200 to tig weld a little 1/4" copper. Its just barely within its reach, and 25A or so more would make things easier, although with a little preheat, you can get decent work done.

1/8"? You should be able to weld MUCH more than that on 200A.

Copper does require more power than aluminum, but not too much, because with copper you can use DCEN, whereas with aluminum, you want A/C.

[DesertRider33]

XMT with a spool gun, stick leads and a tig torch will do everything need, except tig aluminum. It will mig aluminum very nicely though. My XMT 304 CC/CV runs fine on 50 amps of 240 volt power. It is an exellent stick welder and excellent mig welder and ok dc tig welder. It does pulse mig too with the add-on Optima pulser, or you can get the XMT 350MPa with pulse built-in. I run my XMT for stick and mig with a Suitcase 8RC feeder for steel and a Spoolmatic 15A spool gun for aluminum.

Dynasty 300DX or 350 or a Thermal Arc 300ACDC will take care of all your aluminum/steel/stainless/other tig needs.

[bratkid63]

I've only got 150 amp service, and I run all the machines in my signature, just not all at once! The dialarc is on a 100 amp circuit, and I haven't blown the main 150 amp breaker yet. Just have to be smart. I won't run the welder if the stove (electric) is running all 4 burners plus the oven, the heat is on (electric) and the water heater (you guessed it, electric) is on. I checked into upgrading my service to 200 but it's too much $$$.

[raferguson]

Thanks to all for your useful comments.

I may be underestimating what I can do with my Synchrowave 200. With preheat I can stretch the capability of the machine, and that could be a practical solution for the occasional situation. I have not yet needed to turn the machine to 100% power, so I have not hit the machine limits yet.

I can see, too, that 300 amps is a lot.

As a tool junkie, I am always looking for reasons to buy new and improved tools.

Richard

[Scott Young]

that xmt is the cat's meow. i would also look at the esab 260

[ponch37300]

I have an 304 xmt running single phase on a 50 amp breaker. I have a 200 amp service in my house and a 100 amp sub panel in my garage. I have never had any problems with electricity. A 50 amp breaker is all you need to run the 304 if you choose that route.

[7A749]

Probably not what you need, but a Miller Maxtron 450 is probably the most powerful DC CC/CV multi purpose single/three phase machine available on the used market today.

It can put out well over 350+++ amps at single phase input power & over 550+ top end with three phase input power. It will do DC TIG stick, MIG & CAC.

No AC current tho.

Still, for a DC machine that runs single phase, not a whole lot out there that will do what it can. They are one hell of a machine.

A staple of the robotic MIG welding industry for a decade. They were made from 1993 to 1997 (rough time frame). Newer machines have since replaced them, but they make a super multi purpose power source for a single phase shop.

Here's a pic of one I had a couple years back for a visual. It has a series 60 feeder on it..

[raferguson]

Thanks again for the comments. I have continued to research, and have a few comments, or things that I have discovered. If you buy smart, for $1000 to $1500, you can get quite a welder on the used market.

It is sometimes hard (impossible) to figure out what the maximum welding current is on single phase for the three phase/single phase welders. Even the owner's manual is not always clear. Generally, they put out less on single phase 220V, but I think that there are some exceptions.

The Maxtron 450 is indeed a very stout industrial multiprocess machine, readily available on the used market for $1000 to $1500, a transformer welder that is smaller and lighter than my Syncrowave 200, and 325 amps output on single phase at 100% duty cycle! Quite a machine.

The miller Shopmaster is an older design single phase multiprocess transformer welder, single phase only, 325 amps max.

The Miller Shopmate DX is a current design, transformer, single phase only, puts out 400 amps, maybe the most output you can get on single phase with a multiprocess machine.

My metalurgist friend working in research really likes the Lincoln Power Wave C300, a new multiprocess inverter welder with a wire feeder and gas valve built in, has dozens of programs stored; you tell it something like "Steel with .045 solid wire" and it will set up the machine. It has an ethernet jack for remote maintenance, monitoring, and downloading programs. But too expensive for most home shops, over $5000. I believe the maximum power on single phase is 300 amps.

Gas valves for TIG are a problem on many multiprocess machines. However, the XMT 350 has one built in, and the Lincoln V350 has it as an option. As noted, you can buy a TIG torch with a gas valve. I figure I could buy an electric gas valve and make my own automatic gas valve system, using an industrial timer between the foot pedal and the welder remote, probably would cost me $100 or so.

The multiprocess machines almost all have separate external MIG feeders, which take up a lot of space, probably $500 to $1000 on the used market.

Many of these welders come in multiple versions. In many cases, the exact model may not be shown on the front panel, and it is not always clear exactly what you give up with the low end model, sometimes called the construction model. I would steer away from the low end models on these welders, especially if you plan to run TIG. You might have to get the serial number and call the factory to be sure exactly which model you are looking at, and what capabilities it might or might not have.

Older TIG/stick machines pretty much all run on single phase, although you might need to put in a 100 amp plus 220V circuit to get 400 amps out. A Synchrowave 300 or 350 might be the ticket if you needed more than 300 amps, otherwise a Synchrowave 250 might make more sense. The older big Syncrowaves are pretty inexpensive used, but all the powerful transformer TIG machines take up a lot of space.

Unless I need 300 amps AC TIG, buying a used multiprocess inverter welder is probably the way to go. Light in weight (80 pounds), takes up little space, could just stick it in the shed until I needed serious power. I would probably keep my existing TIG and MIG as my main welders. I could buy stick leads pretty cheap, use my spoolgun for MIG, and probably would not need to upgrade the 50 amp 220V circuit for the welder. This means that there would be minimal cost and trouble beyond $1000 or $1500 for the welding power supply. Setting up a water cooled TIG would be possible, but more money/trouble.

An interesting research project, I wrote up very detailed notes. If somebody wants a copy of the notes, send me a private email.

Richard

[Broccoli1]

Originally Posted by raferguson

Setting up a water cooled TIG would be possible, but more money/trouble.


Richard

above 200amps yer gonna need it. Heck if I Tigged more I would get one for the TA185

[DesertRider33]

That about sums it up.

All it takes is money...

[DesertRider33]

Originally Posted by Broccoli1

above 200amps yer gonna need it. Heck if I Tigged more I would get one for the TA185

Watercooled is the only way I've ever run my TA185. I use air cooled on the XMT.

[7A749]

Originally Posted by raferguson

The Maxtron 450 is indeed a very stout industrial multiprocess machine, readily available on the used market for $1000 to $1500, a transformer welder that is smaller and lighter than my Syncrowave 200, and 325 amps output on single phase at 100% duty cycle! Quite a machine.

Just to clarify, the Maxtron 450 is not a transformer based machine, but is a true inverter using IGBT technology to create & sustain the welding arc.

The biggest bang for your buck, IMHO. They last a long time if you take care of them.

[mxdogger]

raferguson,
wow those are some intersting points. I will send my email address for those notes,im looking to get a tig machine (ac) for some projects at home and to start practicing,hopelully get a better job. Right now unemployed and my area has one of the highest unemployment rates.I need to satisfy my metal working side.

[DesertRider33]

Best bang for the buck in an ac/dc inverter tig is the Thermal Arc 185 ACDC. For $2000 you can get the whole ready-to-weld kit. Check BR Welder on Ebay.

[mxdogger]

Thanks for the info Dessertrider33

[Ries]

I have a 304 XMT, and I love it.
I tig with it every day.
I have spent the bucks, and I have a water cooled torch for it (miller radiator 2, I believe) and a Miller HF unit on it.

I have tigged copper before, and I think the 304 is a good way to go- I also have a syncrowave 250, and it maxes out completely on 3/16" copper- it is probably putting out closer to 300 amps, and everything gets plenty hot. That machine is on a 100 amp breaker.
I now use the 304 for stuff like that, where I need max power.

But even lift arc with an air cooled torch, the 304 is still awesome. Plus, it mig and stick welds really nicely. And its small, light, and portable.

I go back and forth every day between the 304 and the syncrowave, depending on which table I am working at, and I prefer the weld quality and smoothness of the 304, hands down. At full output, the 304 is putting out way more than 300 amps. 400 amps on 3 phase, which mine is.

Plus, as you mentioned, smaller breaker. 50 amps is plenty.

[Dmaxer]

On a single-phase 50A circuit the XMT-350 CC/CV is hard to beat. Not quite as robust as the Maxtron 450, but industrial strength at 300 amps with a 60% duty cycle and easier to move around. Plus it accepts an internal gas solenoid to support its DC TIG output. The only DC power source I'd rather have is the XMT-350 mpa, which adds pulsed arc capability.

[DesertRider33]

Dmaxer, you can put an Optima pulser on your XMT 350 and have nearly all the MPa capabilities in your existing machine for alot less $$$.

[DesertRider33]

I would like my XMT on dc tig alot more if it had HF start and a gas valve. I think eventually I end up buying a Maxstar 200SD for mobile dc tig. The Maxstar isn't much more money than a fully decked out HF251D1 freq box with all the cables and alot more convenient than hauling the XMT and HF251 around a jobsite.

[raferguson]

I have been continuing to do more research on this topic, and I may have shoveled to the bottom of the information pile. I received the following email from Bill at Lincoln, responding to my query about maximum power of the Lincoln V350 on single phase.

The welder has the same output for single or 3 phases input. Going into the design, one of the V350s requirements was to have this feature. Some areas in the unit are over designed when operating on single or 3 phases to accomplish this.

.

So the Lincoln V350 Pro is apparently the most powerful welder you can buy on single phase power, with 425 amps of output. The comparable welders from Miller (XMT 304 and XMT 350) top out at 300 amps on single phase 230V power. Like the XMT 350, the V350 comes in three models, with the low end model (VS or construction) lacking any remote control capability, and the high end model having pulse and other advanced features.

Second place is the Miller Shopmate DX, a transformer machine which is single phase only, with 400 amps of output.

The Miller Maxtron is in third place, with 325 amps maximum output. However, it has the advantage of being 100% duty cycle at 325 amps! Duty cycle is generally not an issue in a home shop, however.

Note that all of the welders above are multiprocess, but none of them include a wire feeder, AC, a gas valve, or high frequency. You can add a gas valve to the XMT 350 or the V350 for TIG. You can add an external HF box to any of these welders to get High Frequency and a gas valve for TIG, although I read somewhere that you cut the welder duty cycle in half when you add HF, so that could be a concern. If you want something to carry around, only the XMT and V350 are under 100 pounds and fairly compact.

As far as the used market is concerned, the Shopmate is pretty new, so not likely found on the used market. The Maxtrons are no longer manufactured, but are readily available on eBay and sometimes on Craigslist. The V350 can sometimes be found on eBay. The XMT304 is widely available used, while the XMT350 is not as common used.

I should note that all the transformer type TIG welders are single phase only, such as the Synchrowave 250, 300, and 350, but these are big, heavy, draw lots of AC power, and are limited to TIG and stick. But if you need AC to TIG aluminum, that is probably the way to go, especially on the used market.

I doubt if very many people really need 400 amps of output in a home shop. However, I think that it is pretty easy to run out of power with the 200 amp machines found in most home shops, especially on 1/4 inch or thicker aluminum.

Of course, even with an inverter welder, it takes more power in to get more power out. A V350 draws 85 amps at 230V single phase to put out 350 amps, so it would take at least a 100 amp circuit to get 425 amps out. A Miller XMT is a bit more efficient, and tops out at 300 amps; some report using XMT 304 on a 50 amp 230V single phase circuit without problems. I did figure out that it would cost me around $200 to put in a 100 amp circuit in my home shop, so that is another cost.

Lots of fun. I will aim for a V350, I think.

[DesertRider33]

The XMT 304 puts out the same 5-400 amps and 10-35 volts on 3-phase or single-phase, just the duty cycle is reduced on single-phase.

300 amps at 32 volts 60% with 30.5 amps input at 230 volts 3-phase,
225 amps at 29 volts 60% witih 47.4 amps input at 230 volts single-phase

The XMT 350 puts out the same 5-425 amps and 10-38 volts on 3-phase or single-phase, just the duty cycle is reduced on single-phase.

350 amps at 34 volts 60% with 36.1 amps input at 230 volts 3-phase
300 amps at 32 volts 60% with 54.6 amps input at 230 volts single-phase

For comparison, the Millermatic 350, which is basicaly an XMT 304 CV-only inside the same box as an XR push-pull wire feeder, puts out the same 25-400 amps on 3-phase or single-phase and the duty cycle is not reduced on single-phase.

300 amps at 32 volts 60%, both single- and 3-phase, with 61 amps input at 230 volts single-phase, and 30 amps input at 230 volts 3-phase

As another comparison, the Pipe Pro 304 diesel engine-drive welder, which is basicaly an XMT 304 CC/CV inside the same box with a 3-cylinder diesel engine and a 3-phase 12KW generator, puts out 5-400 amps and 10-35 volts, with a duty cycle of 300 amps at 32 volts 60%, which is the same as an XMT 304 running on 3-phase power.

3-phase generator output is 12KW, 30 amps at 240 volts.
Single-phase generator output is 12KW, 50 amps at 240 volts and 100 amps at 120 volts.

The Pipe Pro 304 can also weld with the diesel engine and generator turned off, if it is equipped with the optional shore-power package, which allows it to be plugged into 3-phase or single-phase on-site power, just like a regular XMT 304. Duty cycles and input power requirements are similar to the XMT.

[raferguson]

The brochures may appear to support your position, that the maximum output is the same on single phase and three phase, but the owner's manuals do not.

The XMT 304 CC/CV owner's manual, on page 11, has a duty cycle graph. There are two lines on the chart. One line is for three phase as well as 460V single phase operation. The other line is for "230VAC Single phase operation". The 230 volt line tops out at 300 amps, while the other line tops out at 400 amps.

The XMT 350 CC/CV owner's manual, on page 12, has a duty cycle graph. There are two lines on the chart. One line is for three phase operation. The other line is for single phase operation. The single phase line tops out at 300 amps, while the three phase line tops out at 425 amps.

The Millermatic 350P owner's manual, on page 11, has a duty cycle graph, which tops out at 400 amps. I could find no reference to any reduction of duty cycle or maximum power on single phase, so it probably does put out the 400 amps on either single phase or three phase.

I think that the graphs in the owner's manuals are very clear, and the Miller brochure for the XMT 304 is deceptive. Note that the 350P and the XMT 350 brochures include the same duty cycle graph as found in the owner's manual, while the XMT 304 brochure does not include the duty cycle graph. If you don't look at the duty cycle graph on page 2 of the brochure, all you see is the maximum amp output on page 1, with no indication that the number only applies to three phase operation. To me, the XMT 304 and XMT 350 brochures are both deceptive, because they show a maximum amp rating without noting that the number only applies to three phase operation.

I will say that I have found the whole question of derating for single phase vs three phase to be a confusing topic, requiring checking several sources to get the real story. I even found that some of the factory salesmen did not have the facts. The Lincoln V350, with 425 max amps on single phase, seemed too good to be true, which is why I verified it by asking the factory.

[DesertRider33]

If what you say about the XMT duty cycle graphs is correct, then I stand corrected. I will say this though, my XMT 304 is plenty of machine for me. It is an excellent stick and wire welder and gets me by on dc tig as well. Same with my MM350P, it is plenty of mig for me and performs excellent. I've been using it to learn 1/16 T8 wire lately and it doesn't miss a beat. Both machines I run on single phase. I really don't see where I would ever use 400 amps on stick or tig. Maybe with really big wire, but I haven't had to yet.