Stick welding tin (very thin steel sheet)

[q12]

Hello everybody, I'm new here. I am new to welding too, made some steel "furniture" - a table and some couple of cabinets until now + little repairs. I have a DC converter max 200A made for stick only. (no sMAW or TIG). I train by myself watching videos on youtube and reading a lot. I only have 6013(I'm picky) and 7018(favorite) stick rods.
I want to know if I can stick weld tin (or very thin steel sheet) , like the one in the image:



Thanks.
--I already loose my fate in my welder capabilities.--
I think that it must be out there some tips and tricks ways to do it.

[turk]

the short answer is no, stick welding thin stuff is difficult enough, and to make it worse it will be even thinner after sanding the galvanizing off.

[hobohilton]

.......... and the long answer is .... Maybe.

Look at this chart-
http://www.sheetmetalguy.com/sheet_m...auge_chart.htm

Everyone's definition of "thin" is different. I've welded 10 gauge with no problems.

If you go thinner, you will need less amps, smaller diameter welding rod and to grind off the galvanized finish so you are seeing the base metal.

If you can bend (brake) your metal so you are welding "lip to lip" rather than edge to edge.... that will help.

An option would be to use the "spot weld" technique / equipment.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks,

Hobo

[q12]

You are right, there are many sheet metal thicknesses, mine is around 0.13mm thick.
I was testing "spot welding" with this converter, using copper rods (from soldering iron which is 2-3cm thick in diameter). I was using different materials, aluminum, brass, iron, steel, and copper but all have the same effect - shooting off the sheet ( at the lower Amp possible which in my case is 9A). I probably need lower amp, something like 4 or 5... but sufficient enough to create spark.
I am thinking to use graphite from pencil, -not tested yet-. Or something with some resistance (not so highly conductive like metals). Or a mix of them... these are just ideas.

Btw(by the way) which is the minimum thickness that a stick rod can weld and not spontaneous penetrate? (I worked on 3mm thickness most of the time and it get better on 4mm or higher).
Thank you.

[OPUS FERRO]

q12 - The longest answer is yes. Are you using galvanized sheet because
it's what you have, or is it because you want the look.

Depending on your jointry, thin hot & cold rolled sheet will weld with stick and
produce an acceptable weld , but galvanized sheet has stick weld issued which
affect the look. Zinc vaporizes when welded and destabilzes the bead.

If looks are important you want you have to TIG braze. It very controllable,
doesn't burn the zinc in the Heat Affected Zone, and produces furniture quality
joints. If you have ever seen zinc tops in a bar or restaurant, TIG is how it was
fabricated. Opus

[OldSchoolPSD]

It can be done, but its a PITA. We do a lot of welded steel grease duct. We try and keep the field welding to a minimum and MIG most of it in the shop. The easiest way we have found is to bend a 1/2" flange on both sides of the joint and stick weld it with 3/32 6011. The flange helps it take the heat, but it's still not for the faint of heart!

[FODFA]

Originally Posted by q12

You are right, there are many sheet metal thicknesses, mine is around 0.13mm thick.

Are you sure? 0.13mm is unbelievably thin, I doubt I could mig that thin, anyone that could stick weld that is a freakin genius.

Cheers Andrew

[Joshfromsaltlake]

Originally Posted by FODFA

Are you sure? 0.13mm is unbelievably thin, I doubt I could mig that thin, anyone that could stick weld that is a freakin genius.

Cheers Andrew

He might have meant 1.3mm.

To stick weld that you still need to be pretty slick.

[q12]

sorry, my bad, I just measure it with my micrometer right now and it have 0.40mm. (0.10mm is a printer paper thickness).
That's why i asked: - which is the minimum thickness that a stick rod can weld and not spontaneous penetrate?

[hobohilton]

Another option could be to solder the joint area.

Hobo

[usmcruz]

Braze, solder or tig!

edit:
I forgot jb weld!

[shortarc]

Originally Posted by q12

sorry, my bad, I just measure it with my micrometer right now and it have 0.40mm. (0.10mm is a printer paper thickness).
That's why i asked: - which is the minimum thickness that a stick rod can weld and not spontaneous penetrate?

Just checked a gauge chart, and if I'm reading rite that would be 26 ga.


Don't think that will be doable for most people with a stick welder. I've done as light as 16 ga. before but you gota move FAST.

[q12]

I don't have any knowledge about soldering.
I have Solder Wire for electronics but other than that... I don't have and did not worked before with other types of solders. It is a very new domain for me(because i have no practice). I know about brass to work well in a lot of thin metal soldering , but I don't know (or have)the proper tools. I know it's a lot of chemistry around it (mix shielding gas) and it's very hard to obtain it and at very high prices. I have seen some movies about TIG,MIG, SMAW, and all are extremely complicated at gas mixtures (the rest is pretty easy to understand). But the chemical stuff is way over my head. For this reason I avoid this domain and I know is very important to know it ... mostly for a DYS-er like me.
Thanks and I appreciate your support !

[FODFA]

Originally Posted by q12

sorry, my bad, I just measure it with my micrometer right now and it have 0.40mm. (0.10mm is a printer paper thickness).
That's why i asked: - which is the minimum thickness that a stick rod can weld and not spontaneous penetrate?

I would start by saying 0.4mm can't be stick welded by a beginner, there might be guys out there good enough to do it, but they would be exceptional tradesmen with years of experience, and even then I have my doubts.

Everything I know about tig welding can be written on a postage stamp so I can't offer any real advice, but from what I have seen guys do on here I imagine TIG would work.

Soldering would be the easiest welding method for a beginner on galv sheet that thin, but its a different process to soldering electrical wires, you need a different soldering iron, something like the one below, although you can use just the very top part without the blow gun if you have a forge or O/A or similar to keep the iron hot.

Cheers Andrew

[MikeGyver]

.015" is half as thick as a credit card. That would be very difficult to TIG.

Wrong process for the job. Good luck.
btw don't grind off the galvanizing, under a minute in muriatic acid will take it down to clean steel.

[Bob]

It would be possible to make 1/4 to 3/8" long welds with 1/16" 6013's on an overlap joint.

[q12]

thanks [MikeGyver] for the muriatic acid idea.

[q12]

thanks [FODFA], and with that blow torch what types of solder i can use?
The electronics solder will not stick to galvanized steel. (or to plain steel if treated).

[q12]

I find this mini hand SPOT welder, the thinnest that I can find and cheaper: Eastwood-Spot-Weld-Gun-2-Electrodes
But I have doubts if can spot weld plates > 0.5mm (2 plates of 0.4 = 0.8 ~1mm)

If you know a good spot welder and cheap enough, do share it here.

my thoughts: From what I see so far, a mini spot welder(any kind of MiniSpotWelder) can weld 2 razors between them and with some enough force, can be torn apart even with bare hands. But maybe i am wrong. I don't have one and I tell what I think they may do.

[jpump5]

I've welded .050 steel butt joint with 1/16 6013.
Wasn't difficult but fit-up had to be good.Also
needed to use a "skip weld technique" to avoid
burning through.I think .050=18ga.=1.27mm.
Maybe with some practice I could stick weld
thinner steel.