Pictures of more bad welds - what am I donig wrong?

[Fab54]

Originally Posted by DSW

Huh? 7024 is probably about the easiest rod to work with and 7014 isn't all that far behind. I can't see any experienced welder having any issues with those rods at all.

Both are drag rods. Hold the flux in contact with the plate and move at a nice steady pace using the right amps and it's hard not to make a nice weld in the flat position. The slag will tell you when your travel speed/ angle is right as the flux will just peal up and flake off with no effort.

On average I find most stick students can produce the most consistent, nice beads using 7014 when they first get started. It's a good rod to learn with as it builds confidence in their skills and gives them a rod that they can repeatedly reproduce good beads with for average noncritical projects. It also doesn't have the storage issues 7018 does that can often complicate things at the early stages of learning. Many times it's hard for students to recognize if the problems they are having is simply coming from poorly stored, damp 7018 or if it's simply their lack of skill and inconsistent welding that's causing the issues.

Good luck.

You are dead on correct. I haven't had a 60** anything in my arsenal for 30 years. 7014 is one of the easiest rods to weld with. 7018 is worthless in my opinion.

[BlueArc]

Originally Posted by mshearne

This is a line of 7018 right after a 6011. I probably turned up the heat on the 7018 to about 140.

Just to clarify, this pictures was 7018 over 6011, at 140 amps?

If so, that looks really cold for what I'm assuming is 1/8th rod. Also, if you're welding over a previous weld, you're going to have to spend more time in the corners burning in to the piece and not just the toe of the existing weld.

Lastly, watch the puddle. Go into the corners and wait for the puddle to fill up to the arc, then move. I guarantee that all of a sudden this is going to get really easy for you.

[RodJ]

Originally Posted by BlueArc

Just to clarify, this pictures was 7018 over 6011, at 140 amps?

If so, that looks really cold for what I'm assuming is 1/8th rod. Also, if you're welding over a previous weld, you're going to have to spend more time in the corners burning in to the piece and not just the toe of the existing weld.

Lastly, watch the puddle. Go into the corners and wait for the puddle to fill up to the arc, then move. I guarantee that all of a sudden this is going to get really easy for you.

I think I just had an AHA! moment.

These threads with pictures and comment are great for us lowly Bed Frame Welders.

[ThorsHammer]

.... Care to say what exactly "the project" is?

[mshearne]

Originally Posted by BlueArc

Just to clarify, this pictures was 7018 over 6011, at 140 amps?

The picture of the tube I made is actually one line of welding. I put down a stick of 6011 at probably 90ish amps, then stopped and put in a 7018, turned the welder up to 140 and just continued with the line with a stick, put another stick of 7018 in, skipped forward about 10" and put it down, then came back with 6011s, turned the heat back down to 90 and filled in the gaps. There is on weldovers on that piece.
It was the third pic that was welded over. Both welds were with 1/8" 6011s. I don't remember what the reason was, but from the looks of it there was a lot of inconsistency in the welding probably resulting in gaps and inclusions.

The project is a land plane made solely from scrap metal laying around the ranch. There was a factory made land plane here years ago - about 30 feet long - which broke down, rusted out and was scrapped to the junk man. I kept the blade. it's 10 feet wide and about 18" high. There were four pair of duallies that came off the original land plane that the junk man didn't want and just cut off. I found two of them that would hold air so I took them apart, sanded them down, cut off the scrap left on them and welded brackets to them. There were two 10' 4x6 angle irons laying around in real good shape and a long piece of pretty old 5" channel iron which I cut 2 or 3 feet off of - nothing but rust. The rest of it is small pieces left over from previous projects or angle iron cut off scrapped mineral feeders. The rest of the project will include two 6 foot 3" I-beams bolted and welded together which will support the blade, a hydraulic ram I found in the barn and some heavy 3" pipe which I will use as a cam for the hydraulic to blade.
I'll take of picture of what I have so far tomorrow.

[mshearne]

The Project - work in progress

[SuperArc]

Originally Posted by DSW

7018 usually like when you hold a bit longer arc than simply dragging it on the plate. That's why generally we start students with 7014 vs simply jumping right to 7018.

Here's a comparison I did for Rick V a while back showing the difference simply changing arc length on 7018 can cause.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=58537t.

DSW, those were some mighty nice looking beads with the 1/8" gap on those 7018's. I'm surprised that you only used 100amps. I find that 125+ for 7018's and even 140 for 7014/7024's works best for me. However your pics tell me that skill and proper technique is more important than just heat (amperage) settings alone.

Thanks for the test.

[SuperArc]

Originally Posted by mshearne

The Project - work in progress

Damn mishearne, I just love big projects like that! Nice pics. Can you post some close up pics of the individual weld beads if you get a chance? What machine did you use for that land plane project?

Thnx

[mshearne]

The welder is an old Lincoln SA-200, gasoline powered for those not familiar. The range selector does not have ranges listed, just values - min, 100, 150, 200, max. The second most important machine is the front end loader I use to turn it over and weld on the bottom. this is what the bolt are in it for - to hold it together until it gets welded. There were four braces I had to put it the front because it was a little flimsy which were my first introduction to welding upside down. I would rather leave that for the pros. Welded over them as soon as I turned it over.
I would be happy to take more pics of the welds (even though most of them are kinda embarrassing). You will see a lot of weld overs on them. Not to mention undercutting, slag inclusion, too fast, too slow, too hot, too cold. A lot of these are shown in the beginning of this post, also more are in the previous post with a similar title.
The manager/owner of the ranch has to work for a living since cattle prices aren't paying the bills, so I've started learning the trade to take care of needs around the ranch. My very first project was a hay manger (for 6 foot round bales) made out of 2 and 3 inch pipe. This is where DSW informed me that I probably couldn't have picked a worse way to start learning how to weld. Come to think of it, that's what the pics were of in the first post, I think. There are no pics of my first manger - that got finished and put out to pasture (way out). But, it works.

[mshearne]

Originally Posted by SuperArc

Damn mishearne, I just love big projects like that! Nice pics. Can you post some close up pics of the individual weld beads if you get a chance?

Thnx

Some of the last welds done on the project. These were all done with 6011s. Most of these are 2" angle welded onto the frame. The last one is the hitch assembly welded onto the end of the tube.

Incidentally, I was trying to get some 1/8" 7014s from our local AOC supply store, but they are not carrying them because the 7014s are unusual for the area. There is a guy at the store who tells me I can us 6010s or 6013s instead because they are practically the same. I don't have a lot of confidence in this guy. Is there any truth to what he is saying?

[RodJ]

I can't seriously comment on the welds because I'm not good enough, but they are definitely better than before - you've really improved greatly. Congratulations.

On the 7014 issue, they are different stregth steel from 6010 and 6013. 70,000 vs. 60,000. 7014 can run on AC but a 6010 can't. A 7014 is a high deposit rod. It's a pure drag rod and easy to run and smooth bead with a nice easy slag when it's run right. If you have a Northern Tool or Home Depot they may have it, but not sure in your neck of the woods. Maybe Tractor Supply. How close are you to Rosenberg or Victoria?

6013 is moderate / modest penetration, all position, AC or DC+ or DC-. It will give a smoother surface like the 7014. I will say this, the 6010/6011 may be better for what you're doing if you aren't going to grind off all the rust. It would be better to have clean steel but the 6010 / 11 rods are better if you can't get clean metal.

Adios.

[SuperArc]

Nice pics. You're welds look great. You can also order small batches of rods via the internet. Order up some 7014 7024's. They will store forever in the right sealed container and you'll have them when you need them. As we all know, the beauty of Internet sales is usually tax free and search around for free shipping

[mshearne]

Thanks for the compliments, it's encouraging. Of course, I kinda left out some pics of mud dobber welds. But, a lot of these pictured above were done one right after the other. Getting a little more comfortable with speed.
TSC has some rods (which I bought but haven't opened). Their price is about double what I will pay at a welding supply store. I'll check Home Depot for prices. Didn't think about them.
Rosenburg and SugarLand are about an hour and a half from here.
Are there any good internet sits that you are aware of?
What is the difference between a 6010 and a 6011?

[RodJ]

6011 is the AC version of 6010, but you can run it on DC, too. For ranch work you would want to have AC available if you had some magnetized iron from friction. Help keep the arc going where you want it. Also the 6010 and 6011 do better on dirty/rusty metal if you can't clean it.

Home Despot is going to be about hte same as TSC on prices. Ouch. But if you have to go all the way to in town anyway, there's gotta be good welding supply stores in Rosenburg and all over that area. I'm guessing your in Matagorda County.

[mshearne]

Yeah, about 10 miles on the Gulf side of Bay City. A little bit further to Brazoria and just a little bit more to Lake Jackson. That's where I would most likely find something local. They will probably have a welders supply there somewhere. I'll make some calls and check the internet. Otherwise I'll just keep the rods I got at TSC instead of making a special trip.

[RodJ]

Freeport will have a bunch of places thanks to Dow Chemical and all that. Of course the shipping is probably cheaper than the gas these days. Hope things pick up for your ranch. I work in an office but it has been hell on all the ranchers and farmers in central texas with the drought and cattle / hay / fuel prices and ... blah blah blah... I honestly wonder what keeps some of them at it.

Take care

[ThorsHammer]

I would still like to see clean metal prior to the welding, but still an improvement.

[stefuel]

Originally Posted by ThorsHammer

I would still like to see clean metal prior to the welding, but still an improvement.

+1
Instead of spending money on different rods to try on dirty metal, a better investment might be a grinder.

[mshearne]

Originally Posted by ThorsHammer

I would still like to see clean metal prior to the welding, but still an improvement.

Ditto
In the beginning (remember the 2" pipe projects) I welded a lot of rusted materials and quickly learned from this group how important it was for good prep work to get good welds. Someone on this forum shared with me that a wire brush just polishes the rust and I would need to grind it down to get to real steel. So, since then, I do a lot more grinding for prep and brushing for slag removal. Some day I'll just drag a hammer across my weld and the slag will fall off. But until then I'll use the brush.
The first thing I grind is my grounding spot, regardless of how the steel looks. After that, I'm still learning how much rust is too much.
Since I'm planning on moving to the 70xx rods, I'll probably be grinding just about everything before fitup.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the comments and advice I've been given here. A lot of it goes in one ear and out the other, or just flies over my head. Some advice I've been given more than once and I need it. Sooner or later it just clicks and then I get it. Sometimes I have to get my hands dirty and then come back and re-read the advice given to me way back, and then I get it. I seem to learn best by making mistakes. And boy, have I learned a lot.
Thank you.

[MinnesotaDave]

Here are some videos you should watch. Now that you've tried some stuff, they will make a lot of sense. Very good close up welding videos where you can see the puddle.

This is a 46 minute Wall Mountain Video.

You Tube

You Tube

If the copy/paste of the link does not work, the video is titled учебное пособие для сварщиков

This is a 12 min video from weldingtipsandtricks.com
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding.html

He has "passing the structural steel test" too - very informative.
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...ding-test.html

Make sure you check out "stick welding tips from bubba" teaching with humor

You Tube

You Tube

[DanT]

Originally Posted by SuperArc

As we all know, the beauty of Internet sales is usually tax free and search around for free shipping

Sorry to wander off topic, but in the spirit of education and all - this statement is landing more and more people in the audit bin come April 15. States are now devoting more and more effort to auditing internet purchases for which sales tax was not charged. No sense getting busted for our toys so keep your nose clean.

Plenty of articles online: report sales tax for internet purchases