new shop power

[setterdog]

went with the 200 amp underground. Even aluminum wire is outrageous expensive now! Had to cross two water lines , cut both of them!$$ Anyhow , I'm gonna run my own welder plugs. Im gonna use 50 amp plug ins. single phase. What size / type of wire should i use? Will 30 amp plug ins work for say a miller abp or syncrowave 351?

[WyoRoy]

I haven't looked up the Miller apb you listed, but the Syncrowave 351 shows 112 amp draw at maximum usage. With the weight of these welders, they aren't going to be portables. Hard wire the wiring directly to a disconnect from your feed off the panel and forget about using under rated receptacles. I hope you installed heavy gage wiring when you were cutting water lines. The manual lists 3 ga. AWG for the 230v hots and 6ga. for the ground and they usually call for ratings less than I would be comfortable with. With the questions you're asking, I would recommend looking in the owner's manual as a start...

[setterdog]

I used #4 underground tri-plex. Hard wiring to a disconnect is a good idea , I will probably stick in the 250 / 275 amp machine range. Thanks

[anickode]

How many threads on the same topic with the same title are you going to make?

A Syncrowave 351, as mentioned before, draws over 100 amps at full output. Your service entrance is already undersized to max out the machine...

I wouldn't go ANY smaller than 50 amps, and that will limit you to the ~250 amp range on the output.

30 amps would be a great size breaker for an air compressor or a small mig welder.

[setterdog]

Didnt know how this worked but apparently ive violated a thread code? Sorry. Thanks for the consult. If i may ask , what size wire to run from the panel to the fifty amp receptical?

[anickode]

Panel to a 50 amp receptacle should be #6 copper. Welder-only receptacles can generally be derated due to the duty cycle of the machine, however for such a large machine, 50 amps is already derated.

For instance... a 225 amp buzzbox can be run on #10 wire because it's almost never run at full output, and when it is, it's a very short time.

Your machine sounds like it'll be run in the 200+ amp range most of the time, and occasionally higher yet than that, so a true 50 amp receptacle with 50 amp capable wire (6ga copper) is a necessity.

[setterdog]

Thanks anickode ,you seem to have quite a bit of electrical knowledge. I never had to do much on the electrical side of things. Everywhere I've worked had maintenance personal to figure this stuff out. I went to a one year accredited welding school as well and the welding and cutting processes were the only focus. In my old shop i had a 180 miller mig wired with 10/2 romex and seemed to work fine. I would like to make a 50 foot extension cord / receptical that is as universal as possible so that i don't have to run so many feet of #6 copper as possible. Will the same #6 wire work?

[anickode]

Running a short receptacle and a long extension cord won't save you money, and may well end up costing more.

You can't use NM wire (romex) for an extension cord. It lacks the impact and cut protection required for cord service, plus it's very stiff and creates a tripping hazard in the shop because it won't lay nicely on the floor.

You'll need 6/3 rubber cord of either the SO (600v rated) or SJ (300v rated). You need 6/3 instead of 6/2 because with rubber cord, the ground wire is insulated and therefore counts as a conductor. 6/3 SO cord usually costs about 3 bucks per foot IF YOU BUY THE WHOLE SPOOL, otherwise it runs 4-5 bucks a foot in cut lengths. If you are using twistlock ends, figure around 50 bucks for the female end and 40 for the male end. Non twistlock ends are probably around half that.

[DSW]

Romex is for use in walls. SO or SJ cord is for extension cord ( there are other cord designators, but those are fairly common). Wire like Romex isn't designed for repeated flexing. Cord is.

[anickode]

Oh I also see you said you ran #4 triplex aluminum... I surely hope you don't have a 200a breaker on that. 200 amp service requires 4/0 AL, not 4awg. 4awg aluminum is good for 50 amps.

[setterdog]

4/0 is what was used. Thats what i meant instead of #4awg. I will probably make 1 extension cord. I agree totally with the romex being a trip hazard , ive experienced that before. Im planning on using the twist lock plugs as well.
Once again thanks for the advice.

[Mondo]

Originally Posted by setterdog

went with the 200 amp underground. Even aluminum wire is outrageous expensive now! Had to cross two water lines , cut both of them!$$ Anyhow , I'm gonna run my own welder plugs. Im gonna use 50 amp plug ins. single phase. What size / type of wire should i use? Will 30 amp plug ins work for say a miller abp or syncrowave 351?

You have chosen well, setterdog. You will not later regret having the 200A service installed.

Welder circuits: 50A requires 6 gauge copper feed minimum, or 4Ga AL. Each welder outlet should be a dedicated circuit but you can install multiple 120v/15A or 20A general service (convenience) recepticles on a single circuit (12ga copper with 20A max breaker) Do yourself a favor: Don't run any 14ga wire, even for light circuits. Changes later may prove to be PITA because of the limitations of 14ga wire.

Do yourself another favor: If you are not very electricity and electrical code savvy consult with a local master electrician for anything you do on your own, before doing it.

- Mondo

[Mondo]

Originally Posted by setterdog

Thanks anickode ,you seem to have quite a bit of electrical knowledge. I never had to do much on the electrical side of things. Everywhere I've worked had maintenance personal to figure this stuff out. I went to a one year accredited welding school as well and the welding and cutting processes were the only focus. In my old shop i had a 180 miller mig wired with 10/2 romex and seemed to work fine. I would like to make a 50 foot extension cord / receptical that is as universal as possible so that i don't have to run so many feet of #6 copper as possible. Will the same #6 wire work?

Do yourself another favor: Figure out a floor plan for your work area then install two or three welder recepticles located to service the welding areas. You may want to install one nearby the garage door opening for outside work. Then use long leads on the machine rather than an extension cord on the supply side. The cost of making an extension cord with appropriate connectors for the supply side will challenge the cost of longer electrode leads. Making a longer supply cord for the machine may be an option, but make certain the gauge required will not exceed the capacity of the connectors inside the machine. Manufacturers often offer longer supply cord options, I recommend using them when a longer supply cord is desired.

Small welders that use common 120V/15A plug will work fine with adequately sized extension cords. I sometimes use a 12ga 50' cord to power my Lincoln 140 MIG.

- Mondo

[setterdog]

I have already used 12/2 wire for my shop lights. Used 10g a m..c. cable wire for my 120's. I believe I'm gonna just buy a roll of #6 if i can afford it. Ive got a couple 50amp cooper brand welder recepticals that I'm gonna install to my machines. Ive got a 180 miller that has done any of my mig projects that I've needed so far so i will probably stick with it. Im looking for a syncrowave 200 or something similar 250 maybe. I want to get a plasma with 1/2'' capacity. Have any of you guys used the plasmas with built in air? All i have ever used have been hooked up to a compressor. Once again thanks for the free consults!