Going to get 2 sa250's

[itsme90]

Neither run but neither are locked up both are diesels not much info is known about either both have trailers and need tires
Paying 1000 for both of them as a pair

[60redfacer]

Is that the pair in craigslist? That's a decent deal

[fredschrom]

post pics when you get them

[hobohilton]

If you get them and decide it's going to cost more to repair them than what the market value is..... Can you part them out and get your initial investment back and pay yourself for the time you spend disassembling / advertising / shipping?

Again, everyone places a different "value" on non-running Lincolns.Every time I bring home another Short Hood, my neighbor on the left says "Wow.... you paid that much for that pile of junk"!.... My neighbor on the right (collector of antique vehicles) says "Man, how do you keep stealing those old Short Hoods from people".

Ahhhhhh the world of old Lincoln welders and the men who made millions $$$ with them.

[fredschrom]

" what the market value is"

A working D3.152 will recover that, pricey engines those. And out of 2 it shouldn't be too hard to get a working one, rebuilt they are even more.

[itsme90]

wow i think i got in over my head here but still going to try to get one running but needing a full wiring digram the good one we have found out to be a 1979 sa250 with the D3.152 ive had an sa200 thought it would be similar and its not even close there is a pull nob on the front of it that goes to the injector pump what dose it do ? then i am having problems getting it to turn over when i have a battery hooked up to it.

[soutthpaw]

Pull knob is the fuel shutoff. Diesels will continue to run even with no voltage or battery. Hence where the term dieseling comes from when u shut a car off and it keeps running for a few seconds.... gas engine rpm is controlled my varying the amount of air entering the engine... diesels are controlled by the amount of fuel... hence no choke or throttle plate on air intake

[60redfacer]

Billswelderrepair.com has some nice diagrams on the 250's

[hobohilton]

Originally Posted by itsme90

wow i think i got in over my head here but still going to try to get one running but needing a full wiring digram the good one we have found out to be a 1979 sa250 with the D3.152 ive had an sa200 thought it would be similar and its not even close there is a pull nob on the front of it that goes to the injector pump what dose it do ? then i am having problems getting it to turn over when i have a battery hooked up to it.

The last thing you want to do is "turn it over".............
The first thing you want to do is to not damage it any worse than what it is.
Time to diagnose it's ills.

[fredschrom]

Push knob forward, you don't want to shut the fuel off. I assume you have:

Checked oil level
Checked water level
if not stop and get that done

Fuel has it been sitting for a while? if so dump the fuel and put in fresh. Then check the fuel filter, it has a glass bowl on it, does it have fuel in the bowl. If not on the other side of the motor there is a hand priming pump; pump that until the fuel bowl has fuel in the bowl. Next down stream to the injector pump is a Murphy valve. If it recieves overtemp or low oil loss of 12vdc it shuts off, so pop the line off it and make sure your getting fuel past it, if your not bypass it for the time being.

Diesels when sitting for a long time or have been worked on will get air in the line to the injector pump and that little air lock takes a bit of cranking to get out of the line.

Was the cap on top of the exhaust burping when you tried to turn it over? If so you have compression, my motor by just hand turning it with a wrench to set the valves 1 turn burps and the cap chatters.

And last be gentle with that Perkins at first, a core charge on that block is about 3 times what you paid for both welders, so a few hand turns to get oil into the right places in the bottom end are well spent ( 1-1/2 inch socket fits the nut on the front end crank nut ).

Here is the primary wiring diagram:

1572_0001.pdf

[fredschrom]

Another item of note, when I was working on mine it WOULD NOT start off jumper cables the starter is tucked in just so that getting a good contact on the starter would would short out an oil line ( did that burned a hole and had to replace the line ). We had one battery and a shop booster pack on it it was still turning low. Made a set of real leads bolted them in and problem magically went away ( we even went so far as to pull the starter nd take it to a starter shop and have it checked)

point is they are fussy a bit and good contacts are needed so try hooking the battery directly to the leads not jumping near the starter.

[itsme90]

thank you for all the help, as soon as i got them both home i drained the oil in the one that is together took the oil filter off of it it was solid black.But on a good note no water in the oil. the fuel looks pretty good in it, water is good also. i think after i get the thing rewired the right way i will be good. you had asked on the exhaust the muffler was broke off of it and not on there but there was a rag stuffed in there so nothing got in there.

[fredschrom]

Because its a diesel it doesn't need much to start, battery, starter, murphy valve opened up, and the amp meter is in circiut.

[wildeyedandbuckwild]

*** DON'T USE STARTER FLUID *** they make starter fluid for gas motors, and gas/ diesel motors. the main difference between a gas motor and diesel is the compression ratio as well as the ignition system. " Gas " runs at lower compression ratios and uses a spark plugs to ignite the gas . also gas is more refined. " Diesel" runs higher compression ratios, and depending on the maker might use glow plugs, aka late model ford power strokes" where as a cummins engine uses just compression for its ignition source for the diesel fuel. also that injection pump on that perkins jumps that fuel pressure way up there. "The Bosch rotary pump on a on a 5.9 cummins only puts out about 17,000 psi of pressure versus more than 25,000 psi for '03-and-newer common-rail injection systems". that is a part of an article form a diesel power mag. the good thing about some of the diesel fuel systems is that they use O rings. and they are fairly cheep, just make sure that the diesel won't eat . also diesel fumes are not as explosive as gas fumes, another plus.



Read more: http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/d...#ixzz21Dh0MCtQ

[itsme90]

update, me and my gf have gotten it to run great had to get a kit for the injector pump it was 25$ but that is a whole lot better than the 650 they wanted to rebuild it. But my next problem is it dose not weld, and i am thinking its not wired right or something but it just sparks a little. But my problem lies in all of the manuals that i have found do not match the welder ?? all of the manules show the 250 that has 2 110v plugs and the 2 220v plugs where mine only has one 110v plug ? im lost here.
heres some picks to show the front of the machine

[fredschrom]

If you call Stumpf welding and ask for there repair dept, give them the model and serial number they will fax you a print if you ask for it.

[60redfacer]

Try this http://billswelderrepair.com/SA250schematics.html

[itsme90]

Ok I put the tester to the rheostat It messures what it says on the out side when you turn it so that means it is good ? But the 2 smaller wires coming out of the armature I get 40 Ohms on it and it should be 64 right ? So that would mean shunt coils?

[hobohilton]

In the photo is a shunt coil (aluminum) out of an SA200, Octagon barrel generator. I took this photo to simplify what it looks like to test a shunt coil. If you get no resistance then there is an open circuit.

[fredschrom]

Redfacer,

Your info is good but NOT neccesarly good depending on seial number and year.

Sa-250's are a slightly ODD duck, they came with AC, without Ac, Several differrent versions of of AC ( KW and 110/220 wise). Point being they can be a tough customer on a generic print.

Bills schematics are NOT correct for mine, different series maybe different opions ?

If you have good knowledge of the electrical theory you can work through a bad print and figure it out, but one thing I have learned on welding web is most memebrs ( not all and there are notiable exceptions) DON'T know or understand very basic electrical theory and unless its basic and clear the are not going to fill in the dots. Its why I quite commenting on how to hook up my 110 and 220VAC 20/ 30 amp breaker posts in the electrical section. My point is I am not helping with tube and tranistor theory which is above the laymen, and it can be googled not posted.

But sa-250's have many different configurations and without theory knowledge or a reliable prints they can be a bit trickey.

[60redfacer]

Cool thanks for the enlightenment on the 250's,im not very familiar with them

[itsme90]

My gf called lincoln and they told us the machine is a 1979, and what I've been reading its a dc machine only not sure on that part though.
So what's yalls ideas on the not welding part? Brushes look good so don't think it's that. And all it dose is just spark a little will not make an arc

[bgroves]

If the brushes are good check the exciter and make sure its not dirty it should be copper colored. if thats not it then its probably your shunt coils.