flux core with argon?

[TBD]

would flux core weld OK with 100% argon?

[steve28]

umm..... no, 75/25 mix if you are talking dual shield fluxcore.

[MAC702]

or CO2, depending on the wire. But regular self-shielded needs no gas.

[pulser]

Rules are made to be broken, particularly by hobby welders, but the correct thing to do would be to consult the manufacture's recommendations.

For critcal applications, the use of the wrong gas can affect the loss/transfer of important elements from the filler to the weld which can significantly affect the mechanical properties of the weld. For example, if the wire is designed to run with 100% CO2 and you run something rich in Argon like 98% Ar/ 2% O2, less elements from the wire will be lost in the arc, making the weld metal rich in these elements and changing the strength, hardness, ductility, and impact toughness of the weld.

[David R]

I was using fabshield 7100 Ultra with C02. At lower heat levels acording to the chart, it would not spray at all. I was getting globular transfer. Welding supply store told me to use AG8. I tried it and on lower settings it seemed to work fine, but at higher settings, there was a crack right down the middle of the weld. Like pulsar said, If its designed for Co2, it will run best that way. Running self shielded with gas throws the metal composition off because there are things in the weld made to be sacraficed. With gas they stay in the weld. It changes the properties.

This is my version of what pulsar said.

[yogie]

Originally Posted by MAC702

or CO2, depending on the wire. But regular self-shielded needs no gas.

yeah what he said, thats always been my experiance with flux core and for the pureists out there, 1.2mm wire.

[Dipper Welder64]

Look at the second page of link it shows types of gas for the wire specified.

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ature/e754.pdf

[David R]

I read the book last night in the "Library". It says Co2 gives globular transfer and deep penatration. At arc tempitures, Co3 dissacociates into CO and O2. The O2 reacts with the more reactive elements in the weld pool and float to the surface with the slag. Mn, Si and Al are contained in the core as deoxidizers to compensate for the oxadizing effect of the Co2. Phew!

The higher the percentage of an inert gas in a mixture with Co2, the greater transfer percentage of deoxidizers in the deposit.

Welds made with C/25 generally have higher tensil and yield strength and approach spray transfer. Argon /Co2 mixtures are prefered for out of position welding.

All parafrased from the Lincoln procedure handbook of arcwelding.

My speeling is the pitts today, sorry.

David

[MAC702]

And all that sounds appropriate for solid wire, not flux-cored, though.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Hey Bro. Yes 100% Argon is the way to go with flux core for good quality welding with .035-.045 wire. I guess you allready know that your puddle appearance during the welding process will not be the same as with standard solid wire welding. Once you get used to this picture you'll have good looking quality welds with pure Argon and flux core. Stay cool and weld clean.

[weldrwomn]

Originally Posted by Gregg(Spiderman)

Hey Bro. Yes 100% Argon is the way to go with flux core for good quality welding with .035-.045 wire. I guess you allready know that your puddle appearance during the welding process will not be the same as with standard solid wire welding. Once you get used to this picture you'll have good looking quality welds with pure Argon and flux core. Stay cool and weld clean.

I would like for you to cite your sources because it has been stated time and time again that self-shielding flux-cored wire is NOT meant to be welded with an external shielding gas. There aren't any Flux-cored wires (that I know of, and I know of a lot of flux-cored wires) that are meant to be run with straight argon. If you are welding anything that has structurally important welds, you should really use the wire in the manner in which it was designed. There are more examples that I can count in which the wrong shielding gas was used with a particular wire that caused weld failure in structures like buildings (where the welds are important).

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by weldrwomn

I would like for you to cite your sources because it has been stated time and time again that self-shielding flux-cored wire is NOT meant to be welded with an external shielding gas. There aren't any Flux-cored wires (that I know of, and I know of a lot of flux-cored wires) that are meant to be run with straight argon. If you are welding anything that has structurally important welds, you should really use the wire in the manner in which it was designed. There are more examples that I can count in which the wrong shielding gas was used with a particular wire that caused weld failure in structures like buildings (where the welds are important).

Well guy, I know what the specs say, and I know what also passes in Aerospace, Paper, Power, Chemical, and ShipYard Industries. Some people may get a kick out of bullshi***** on the net........I'm not one of them. I don't know what you've read or who you heard say what or even what you've seen. What I do know is that Argon is the iceing on the cake doing vertical up and capping w/ 1in or better weaves. I'm also talking about .045 and up in wire dia. I have no reason to lie. I have personally passed x-ray and bend tests with this same exact formula. I also position my collet about 1/8 -3/16 "out" from the cup. Guess you wouldn't know anything about that either, huh? You should try what I'm saying and if you have, and still doesn't work, you are obviously doing something wrong.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by Gregg(Spiderman)

Well guy, I know what the specs say, and I know what also passes in Aerospace, Paper, Power, Chemical, and ShipYard Industries. Some people may get a kick out of bullshi***** on the net........I'm not one of them. I don't know what you've read or who you heard say what or even what you've seen. What I do know is that Argon is the iceing on the cake doing vertical up and capping w/ 1in or better weaves. I'm also talking about .045 and up in wire dia. I have no reason to lie. I have personally passed x-ray and bend tests with this same exact formula. I also position my collet about 1/8 -3/16 "out" from the cup. Guess you wouldn't know anything about that either, huh? You should try what I'm saying and if you have, and still doesn't work, you are obviously doing something wrong.

FYI - My sources are over 20yrs in a profession that you can't bs me on, so the next time you get ready to beat somebody down with your welder's bible or what ever you've been reading you might consider actually trying the recommendation first.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by pulser

Rules are made to be broken, particularly by hobby welders, but the correct thing to do would be to consult the manufacture's recommendations.

For critcal applications, the use of the wrong gas can affect the loss/transfer of important elements from the filler to the weld which can significantly affect the mechanical properties of the weld. For example, if the wire is designed to run with 100% CO2 and you run something rich in Argon like 98% Ar/ 2% O2, less elements from the wire will be lost in the arc, making the weld metal rich in these elements and changing the strength, hardness, ductility, and impact toughness of the weld.

Hobby welders invented walking the cup, not manufacturers.........but I'll leave it to all yall welding Gods. I wouldn't have said it if I couldn't back it up.

[weldrwomn]

Originally Posted by Gregg(Spiderman)

Well guy, I know what the specs say, and I know what also passes in Aerospace, Paper, Power, Chemical, and ShipYard Industries. Some people may get a kick out of bullshi***** on the net........I'm not one of them. I don't know what you've read or who you heard say what or even what you've seen. What I do know is that Argon is the iceing on the cake doing vertical up and capping w/ 1in or better weaves. I'm also talking about .045 and up in wire dia. I have no reason to lie. I have personally passed x-ray and bend tests with this same exact formula. I also position my collet about 1/8 -3/16 "out" from the cup. Guess you wouldn't know anything about that either, huh? You should try what I'm saying and if you have, and still doesn't work, you are obviously doing something wrong.

First of all, I would like to point out the obvious - I am NOT a guy

Second, if you are so all-fired sure that Argon doesn't affect the end result with self-shielding wire, then tell me what your charpys and tensils yielded with and without the argon. Also, please inform all of us ignorami here exactly what wire you are using.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by weldrwomn

First of all, I would like to point out the obvious - I am NOT a guy

Second, if you are so all-fired sure that Argon doesn't affect the end result with self-shielding wire, then tell me what your charpys and tensils yielded with and without the argon. Also, please inform all of us ignorami here exactly what wire you are using.

Yeah, I didn't take the time to correct that once I discovdered you are a female, my bad, nor have I resulted in calling you names. You wanted to call me out on some thing that you obviously know a lot about but have no/none what so ever practical experience or else you would know what I am saying is true. As for the specifics on the wire, my last experience with flux and gas was about 5 or 6 yrs ago and all I remember was the dia., but an educated guess would be murrex, rarely did the mill use lincoln, but since we're on the subject you probably swear by their X-Calibur just because the literature says it's the best.....well, it's allright I can do the same thing and look better with a cheap *** air-co 7018....Anyway, let me know when you get tired of looking like an ignorami.

[MAC702]

I can see one person is making a lot more ASSumptions about the other...

[sn0border88]

I think you need to have a talk with lincon then, the stupid engineers over there decided they didnt need no 100% pure argon and would rather have 100% CO2 or 75/25 ran with their dualshield wire.

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/consumableseries.aspx?browse=104|13275|

In fact, I ask you to find one wire that is made for 100% argon and commonly used in the industries you mentioned.

[dakook]

WTF? a 26 month delay in this flair up. Any way I will bite. As a hobbist I run alot of shelf sheilded flux core and this is the first I have every heard of using gas with it. But when it comes to welding I will try anything once. As the shelf sheilded flux core was/is designed not to run with gas what does adding the argon do? Another words what can I expect to be different when running the beads with and with out gas and what the weld going to look like with gas? Explain more to an ignorami and I will give it a try. Maybe your talking about dual-sheild wire?

[Burnit]

Wow, everyone is in a great mood today. The original poster did not specify whether it was self or dual shield wire.

Greg, as far as Welderwoman's "practical experience" I have chatted with her several times a she is a professional weldor that dumps lots 'o' flux-core.

Please provide us with where you get 100% Argon for running dual shield flux-core. We're all dying to know why everyone (Lincoln, ESAB etc...) tells us to use 100% Co2 and 75/25.

Half of us here are not hobby guys, you're not the only one here working shut-downs, welding pipe and passing x-rays.

But your are the only one here with a really crappy attitude. What gives?

You don't have many posts and your first couple posts in.....let's see 21 months are
bringing up an old argument.

If you want to participate here please try to have a good attitude, or not, whatever.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by dakook

WTF? a 26 month delay in this flair up. Any way I will bite. As a hobbist I run alot of shelf sheilded flux core and this is the first I have every heard of using gas with it. But when it comes to welding I will try anything once. As the shelf sheilded flux core was/is designed not to run with gas what does adding the argon do? Another words what can I expect to be different when running the beads with and with out gas and what the weld going to look like with gas? Explain more to an ignorami and I will give it a try. Maybe your talking about dual-sheild wire?

OK, first of all, if you will track back to the beginning, I was practicaly called a liar, then came the outright name calling. I just gave her back the name she called me.......I never said you would 'READ IT ANYWHERE' because you will not is is allways tri-blend or 72-25, but anyway all I'm sayiing is that the 100% argon works best and it may have well been dual shield wire that I was using, I really dont remember for sure and hopefully lastly....I was just released from the Ga. Dept of Corrections about 6mo. ago, thats why the delay, and wouldnt have even know about the post reply if it were'nt for good ole email, yeah I saw I had a reply to a post I had totally forgotten about, but under the circumstances since I wasn't here I feel I have the right to defend my integrity. I might not can spell it, but I got a pretty good idea of what it means.(lol) Anyway all I know is I've never busted out on testing and certainly never looked out on apperance.

I will be the first one to bow out of this.

[Gregg(Spiderman)]

Originally Posted by Burnit

Wow, everyone is in a great mood today. The original poster did not specify whether it was self or dual shield wire.

Greg, as far as Welderwoman's "practical experience" I have chatted with her several times a she is a professional weldor that dumps lots 'o' flux-core.

Please provide us with where you get 100% Argon for running dual shield flux-core. We're all dying to know why everyone (Lincoln, ESAB etc...) tells us to use 100% Co2 and 75/25.

Half of us here are not hobby guys, you're not the only one here working shut-downs, welding pipe and passing x-rays.

But your are the only one here with a really crappy attitude. What gives?

You don't have many posts and your first couple posts in.....let's see 21 months are
bringing up an old argument.

If you want to participate here please try to have a good attitude, or not, whatever.

If you will read a little futher somewhere someone said something about a hobby welder then I responded......I dont think Im superman of welding, never have and never will.....and I also have a nice complimentary article about the professionalism of everyone here due to my experience a few months earlier. I am not looking for a fight, I just dont appreciate it when I feel someone is trying to make me look bad when Im not bad. I tell you what man, I appreciate it, everything, and good luck to all.

[Burnit]

Cool

[Supe]

I hope all those x-ray welds, power plant, aerospace, shipyard etc welds were run with a procedure qualified using 100% argon. If not, that's a lot of code violations that have gone undocumented.

[qaqc]

Gregg(Spiderman),
Wow! I just happened to stumble on this thread and obviously I have much to learn. As others have requested, please give us the details on the FCAW with 100% Ar. This will go a long way in helping us understand what it is you have accomplished. I'm not outright calling you a liar, but if all you can remember is the wire diameter than that holds no credibility. I find it very hard to believe that you have reinvented the wheel. That you have accomplished more than the manufacture with there unlimited resources. When performing welding to the applicable code Aerospace, Paper, Power, Chemical, and ShipYard Industries do not allow the use of 100% Ar (maybe that is something you did not know?) I would be willing to bet a weeks pay that you could not pass UT or RT or bends or tensile welding FCAW-G with 100% Ar. Just another ignorant persons opinion.


David R,
shielding gas has no influence on FCAW transfer mode. Additionally, FCAW is not broken down into short circuit, globular, and spray transfer modes. This only applies to GMAW