Millermatic 212 vs. ESAB Migmaster 215 ??

[Steevo]

Having decided that I need a more powerful MIG welder, with a higher duty cycle (currently using a Lincoln ProMig140), I have been reading up on the machines in my needs and price range.

It looks like the two most likely candidates are these:

ESAB Migmaster 215

Millermatic 212

I'd like to hear from those that own these machines as to quality of arc, startup, wetting, burnback, etc.

Does anyone here know whether the ESAB uses standard consumables, and is it compatible with popular spool guns like the Miller units?

Also, is there a Lincoln machine that closely competes with these?

[morgaj1]

I was in the same boat as you a couple of months ago. The Lincoln Power Mig 216 is in the same category. The one thing that I did not like about it is that it only has 6 voltage taps. I ended up finding a used Lincoln Power Mig 255. It has a great wet out and a crisp arc. It also has infinite voltage adjustment.

If you are set on a 250 amp machine, the Thermal Arc Fabricator 210 is the way to go IMO. It is well regarded, has Tweco brand consumables and a 5 year warranty. Plus, you can get it for a great price.

The thing that I don't like about the Esab 215 is the wire feed. It may end up lasting a while, but looks cheap to me. I don't think this machine is as well regarded as the older Migmaster 250.

The Miller is a great machine, but for the money, you can get more with the Thermal Arc. Also, I am not a big fan of the M-25 mig gun.

[Steevo]

thank, morgaj1
I'll look into the Thermal Arc Fabricator 210, and see if it is sold anywhere near me.

[snoeproe]

The Lincoln powermig 216 has 7 voltage taps. This is not a problem as you can fine tune things with infinate wire sped.
The Esab migmaster 215 pro is as smooth as any easb mig welder. Welds like a 3 phase machine. Very smooth.

[SuperArc]

I have the Lincoln 216. Absolutely love it. I considered the Miller 252 and the Loncoln 216. Power output is the same, but personally I think Lincoln makes the BEST "heavy duty" drive roll mechanism in the industry. Plus, the 216 costs less than a Miller 252.

[AngleWold]

The Lincoln Power Mig 216 is in the same category

[Dan]

Originally Posted by SuperArc

I have the Lincoln 216. Absolutely love it. I considered the Miller 252 and the Loncoln 216. Power output is the same, but personally I think Lincoln makes the BEST "heavy duty" drive roll mechanism in the industry. Plus, the 216 costs less than a Miller 252.

The PowerMIG 216 doesn't come close to outputting as much top end power as the MM 252.

The top end power level of the PowerMIG 216 is going to be closer to my Hobart Ironman 230.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by snoeproe

The Lincoln powermig 216 has 7 voltage taps. This is not a problem as you can fine tune things with infinate wire sped.
The Esab migmaster 215 pro is as smooth as any easb mig welder. Welds like a 3 phase machine. Very smooth.

Trying to cover 200 + amps with only 7 voltage results in some obvious holes in the out put. Meaning there are times were you have to live with a little hotter weld then needed, because the next tap down is a little on the cold side.

[snoeproe]

Originally Posted by Dan

Trying to cover 200 + amps with only 7 voltage results in some obvious holes in the out put. Meaning there are times were you have to live with a little hotter weld then needed, because the next tap down is a little on the cold side.

Which is the time when you bump up the wire feed just a tad to compensate for that. A good welder wont have any problems figuring this out.

[MoonRise]

Need or want to do spray transfer and not just short-circuit transfer or possibly globular transfer?

You pretty much have to go for the 250-class machines.

Your call and your budget, but if I were looking to seriously 'move up' in power and capabilities I'd really look hard into going for the 250-class machine.

Next step up after that is the 350-class machines, which usually add pulsed-spray capability (among other things as well).

[SuperArc]

Originally Posted by Dan

The PowerMIG 216 doesn't come close to outputting as much top end power as the MM 252.

The top end power level of the PowerMIG 216 is going to be closer to my Hobart Ironman 230.

True. The 252 pegs out at 300A and the 216 and 230 at 250A. If I were a professional welder that made a living from burning metal in my home shop, I'd buy a 300A machine. It would probably be the Lincoln 255 series. Lincoln's drive roll system on the big machines kicks every other manufacturer's azz in that department.

For the DIYer, the 216, 230 class machines can handle any job tossed it's way. I wouldn't get the ESAB, but that's just my personal opinion. I know that finding mig consumables for a miller or Lincoln is like finding a liquor store. They're everywhere. I'm guessing that finding readily available parts for an ESAB or Everlast would be like trying to find parts for a Fiat. Sure they're out there but one has to look much harder for those parts retailers.

[SundownIII]

snowproe,

Not calling you out, but your post is full of BS.

Are you seriously questioning whether Dan is a "good welder".

I'm guessing Dan's forgotten more about mig welding and mig welders in the last 30 minutes than you'll ever know.

You need to do your homework before you start flapping your lips.

[Brand X]

I find Esab consumables easy to find, since Tweco #11 tips tread in perfect. I don't find Lincoln feeding any better then MIller or Esab (260 type) To tell you the truth, the Thermal's based on the older Hobart's, are excellent too.

I think the Esab's kind of went backwards in the drive rolls area, but it might be just fine?I My C-200 drive setup much stronger, and faster then the passport I use to own. If the Esab( don't know) 215 is anything like the Polish C-200, then it's probably a very nice welding unit. More taps are a advantage, and the only thing I dislike about the Lincoln machine.A proven good unit.

[SuperArc]

Originally Posted by Brand X

...More taps are a advantage, and the only thing I dislike about the Lincoln machine.A proven good unit.

The "taps" are only on the Lincoln 216 model. Everything else on "upward
from there is continuous voltage setting with Lincoln mig machines.

Personally, I would prefer continuous also. Those that prefer otherwise, (tapped over continuous) I seriously doubt they know what they're talking about. I believe they only "tolerate" and accept the tapped voltage settings. Deep down inside, anyone with a "tapped" voltage setting secretly wishes they had "continuous." Yet, that's a different topic.... I actually considered a miller, but I've always like the Lincoln's drive roll system better. That's just me. Heck, I do own a MM211 and like it!

I only bought my 216 because I bought it from a welder (cousin) that owned it still inside the box in a storage facility. He had it for 4 months and never used it because his wife filed for divorce conincidentally after he bought the thing. I got it half off the normal price! Whoo-Hooo! I couldn't pass up that deal and after the price negotiation, well............ 'nuff said! Lincoln it is!

That being said, I do love the machine and I've never been NOT able to adjust the arc the way I like it. Adjusting the wire speed (amperage) is fine in between the voltage settings. I do like Hobart's 230 that has 12 tapped settings (IIRC), vs. Lincoln's 216 that has 7.

Then again, I can't ever complain because I got the welder at a frick'n steal!!!!!!

I LOVE divorce sales!!!!!!!!!

[Brand X]

I was just making a point about the drive roll setup. Lincoln, split drive 2 roller is a nice setup. (own two feeders with it) Does it improve the feeding over my two roll Thermal-arc 1000 feeder??? Not that I can tell in any way shape or form. It could have a slight advantage in using a aluminum push pull with it. By design it does not leave a lot of room between the output guide, and feed roll. The other machines still work as well in practice.. I even have both feeders hooked up at once, and both are excellent. Actually the Thermal has very cool drive roll styles , giving you quite a few different ways to feed wire. Now the Lincoln with it's 24/42 volt capability is very nice feature. You can use it on many power supplies with excellent results. (Esab/Lincoln/Miller/Thermal-arc)

I sure would not like to take advantage of a poor guy going through a divorce. Although, if he was selling to bail out quick, I would be all over it..:Karma deal....

[BD1]

hi, this is similar to a post on the Miller site, check it out. My favorite is CRUIZER #3 post

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ld-you-guys-do

[SuperArc]

Originally Posted by BD1

hi, this is similar to a post on the Miller site, check it out. My favorite is CRUIZER #3 post

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ld-you-guys-do

I checked it out. Sounds like the guy just "LOVES" esab.....

I really don't know anything about esab. I have tried some of their electrodes once. I guess it did okay. I just figure if one sticks with red white and blue (Lincoln Hobart Miller..........okay okay, Hobart is light beige), then one can really never go wrong.

Albeit, Lincoln does turn out some cheap Home Depot little units that I consider one step above Harbor Fright's welders. There's a saying for professional mechanics and it's 100% true in the turbine aircraft industry.... "You're judged by your tools."

It's pretty much 95% Snap-On tools that I see. Even though Craftsman could get the job done, the mech's don't use them in their shops. At home is probably a different story. Looking at professional welders, I'd say 95% of them use Miller or Lincoln. Ive never seen esab at a welder's shop. That doesn't mean esab is a bad product however.........

I'm just say'n............

[Brand X]

Cruiser seems right sometimes. ccawgc at this site seems to be as current, and up to date as far as machines go. Not emotional, just facts as what he has seen in his shop. Those new tapped Esab's could be junk? The 173/203/253 models were. OK, if you got one really cheap.

[Dan]

21 voltage taps and two inductance taps make the multi-voltage (input voltage) ESAB 215 somewhat interesting.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by snoeproe

Which is the time when you bump up the wire feed just a tad to compensate for that. A good welder wont have any problems figuring this out.

If the voltage is to low to wet the weld puddle out properly to the toes of the weld, increasing the the wire speed is just going to cause the weld bead to pile higher and increase the the possiblity of cold lapping along the toes of the weld bead. Also if the wire speed was set near perfect for the voltage increasing the wire speed more could result in the weld puddle rolling to far ahead of the arc which could lead to a reduction in weld bead penetration into the base metal.

[fredschrom]

Thermal ARC: when I was at the weld school 2 of these pretty much burned up, 1 caused a pretty serious fire, and trashed the electrical. After it was repaired I stuck my nose inside it real good. I am a electrical engineer ( was ) and know components and pieces very well. After a good inspection, quality parts were uses, no short cuts. So I took apart a Lincoln and a Miller, H'mm the circiut boards are conformally coated, the Thermal Arc wasn't. My conclusion was the Thermal Arc ( which were know as thermal sparks ) got grinder dust inside and shorted out the circiut board. Honestly the 181 isn't a bad machine, but if you buy one follow one of the two options: 1. absolutly keep it away from any grinding or: 2. open it up and spray laquer the circiut board a couple of times and be religious about blowing it out.

Miller 212, decent machine, I own one, would rather have a a higher amp machine sometimes, and they are NOT a production machine. The best Mig I ever welded on was a Lincoln mig on a 600 amp power supply, sweet really a nice machine. I also like the miller 304/350 series multiprocess machines. A 304 can be picked up used for $1200 ish, and a model 32 spool reel is a good setup.

If your looking for at the ESAB check your local welding store(s), do they stock consumables and parts? My local ESAB distributor carries zip, a couple of machines, no consumables, and really limited parts so its special order everything. Not a bad machine, just not practical in my neck of the woods.

[SuperArc]

Originally Posted by fredschrom

...If your looking for at the ESAB check your local welding store(s), do they stock consumables and parts? My local ESAB distributor carries zip, a couple of machines, no consumables, and really limited parts so its special order everything. Not a bad machine, just not practical in my neck of the woods.

+1.