Did you learn to weld in high school?

[gocanes719]

Thaks for the replies guys. As far as equipment goes, the shop is full as it is. I don't really have any room for any more O/A equipment and the school doesn't really prefer we use it based on it being so dangerous. I have one cart that sits in the corner of the shop that we use a rosebud on. I just want the kids to be able to learn how to run a bead and to put a couple of pieces of material together in different positions. They do a wood working skill and we repair, refinish and paint in the class as well. We also have a metals class that the students can take and build there own projects. I am looking for a good arc welding skill I can turn a student loose on that will really help them to become proficient and running beads. I get spread pretty thin when we have 6 booths going and two students in each booth.

I can see why the one reply on here stated they shut down the shop because the students wanted to build weapons and chinese stars. That is a constant battle. For whatever reason students that take these courses think they are going to walk in the first day, put on a welding helmet and weld everyday. The truth of the matter is, you get them started welding and most of them weld a week to two weeks and quit on it because they have no desire to continue. It is really easy to tell who wants to learn to weld and who took a class because they thought they were getting out of book work.

[silky]

Originally Posted by WelderBoy

Write your name? That's an odd project. Did you have to follow a soapstone mark or anything?

yeah it was odd, but pretty cool. i still have my final name plate in the garage somewhere. as far as I remember, we didn't use soap stone. at least I didn't... that would have been much easier.

[Deuce]

The Kids that went to Kilgore and were good at welding went on a SKILS welding conpetition where you had to do everything from oxy/acte welding to flux-core, hard wire, TIG, Stick. I dont know if your school does the same thing but they taught ones like me that already had experiance welding to fine tune it my suggestion is to start them out welding 6011 uphill since most of your welding places wont allow you to weld down hill. I know its hard at first but if you can get them to do that it will help them out more than any thing. But thats just my oppion it your BBQ, your call

[HGHS-Corp]

maybe this question is a little lame... But the rods that are being discussed, What make are they?,What Ø do they have, are they Basic or Rutile coated?, Ect.

Oh i got it... its the AWS number? or?

Because the rods i use at the moment have AWS A5.1-04: E7016

[Hammack_Welding]

yes these are the aws classification. The first two digits in the tensile strength, the third is the position it can be used in, and the fourth is other characteristics such as flux composition, etc... Hope this is what you were refering to....

[lorenzo]

Gocanes.... I don't see the problem with teaching your student MIG prior to teaching them SMAW. If you were to teach them MIG at first they would have a much better understanding of what the arc is doing when they went to SMAW. Also One thing you can do.... and I've said this many times, have your students begin running flat stringers.... after they get to a point where they are showing consistency begin to increase the angle of the plate working toward welding at 90 degs.. After that you can work toward over head by doing the same thing.

In the end your program needs to be designed to spark (no pun intended) the interests of the kids. Kids (especially now days) become easily discouraged, give them something they can get a grip on with relative ease. Kids need to see fast results. Once they see the creative expression welding will allow them to have and how they can actually build things....... their interest will peak and they will WANT to put in the effort.

[olddad]

This is only my opinion but I'd have to say start with stick. I believe it's too easy too miss the correct setting and still turn out a good looking weld with mig. They will put too much emphasis on the appearance and learn bad habits too easily with mig. Once you learn control with stick it readily translates itself to the other types of electrical welding.
The majority of the kids you would see in a high school course are going to be there because they think it's an easier class to tolerate than many of their other choices. That said I believe you owe it to them too make them familiar with whatever you're teaching but these aren't the ones that will stay with it. A teachers reward is getting a few kids that welding actually sparks an interest in. Those are the ones you acually get to teach, they want to learn it. You can make a welder out of them, for the others it's more like a familiarization.

BTW; to answer the topic title, no, my school didn't offer a metals class, carpentry only. I learned on the job with 7018 after I hung my tool belt up.

[FordBuilderFL]

Originally Posted by WelderBoy

Nope. They stopped the metal class years before I got into high school because kids were making ninja stars and other weapons.

I learned in college.

Same here, I guess I was born 3 years too late to enjoy my intor to welding for free! I was very disappointed in the high school I went to, as they had all the shop space/equipment/everything to teach some excellent auto mechanics and metal fab courses. But, they hired a guy who taught everyone to do woodwork, and the problem went from throwing stars to student-made baseball bats. What a brilliant soultion that turned out to be?!

I learned a LOT from my welding instructor, and then learned a ton of the background on welding from an old man named Pete I worked with right out of school. Pete was late 60's-early 70's and had to have some ridiculous magnifying lens in his helmet AND wear his glasses still to see, but that old man could weld like nobody I had ever seen! He taught e how to critique my own work, to be brutal when doing so, and to never settle for less than my best. I hope to run into him again someday, that old ironworker really moved me forward!

I wish high school shop courses would step back up in this area (central florida) so we could give a better opportunity to the guys who arent university bound. I personally feel if I had gotten a taste of ironwork in high school, I could have done something more productive for the 3.5 years between high school and stumbling upon welding school!

[lorenzo]

The reason I suggest teaching MIG first (I learned stick before MIG and oxy acet welding before stick, just so you know), especially at a high school level is because, for one the kids are not paying to be there..... this is a course most are taking to satisfy the school requirements. With that said, most are not there learning this for work, some are there because they have an interest in this field as a job but they're employer isn't shelling out the money so there is no real sense of having to "learn" outside of how far someone will push oneself. For these reasons and others, I think you would get a more genuine interest from the kids if they grasp the concept with a bit more ease. MIG also allows the welder a much clearer view of what is happening at the arc. How it washes and ties in. how angles effects the bead. You can see the bead cool because there is no flux covering, not as much smoke.

Let's say after the kids demonstrate that they can run a flat bead with relative consistency. You have the kids make a 3-D, 6 sided cube as a project. Have them make a set of dice out of 2x2 or 3x3 pieces, all outside corner joints. First off they will have an easier time tacking up the cube with MIG than SMAW. It will be a hell of a lot easier to for them to weld the outside corners without blowing through, and if they do the holes will be easier to fill as well. The kid gets it all welded up, grinds all the corners smooth, finishes the faces with spot welds for numbers dots. This kid now has something they made, they can hold in their hands, take it show it to whoever they want. That is what I feel gets the creative juices flowing, because the ones who actually have a sense of pride in what they made will look at their dice and start to wonder... "What else can I make?" "What needs to be fixed at home?"

Let's face it too..... any of these students who try to get a summer job or a part time job after school are going to be applying to small welding shops and I would be willing to bet that they will have a greater need for the MIG process than SMAW. Although SMAW is a process I feel a welder must be able to perform I also know that this process is very rarely used in an indoor shop and more than likely the kid will start off tacking more than anything. Do your students a favor, teach them the process that you feel will benefit them them the most at this point in their life. Call around to local welding shops, tell them who you are, what you do and ask them what process they are running the most.

I'm not saying not to show them SMAW, because there will be kids who advance faster than others. The idea is get them interested in the first place.


Just my $.02

[WelderBoy]

I like that dice idea lorenzo.

[tresi]

Originally Posted by WelderBoy

Nope. They stopped the metal class years before I got into high school because kids were making ninja stars and other weapons.

I learned in college.

We made lots "large bushing" and " hay wagon axles" in metals II. We were smart enough not to assemble them into really neat cannons until we got them home.

[denrep]

Originally Posted by tresi

We made lots "large bushing" and " hay wagon axles" in metals II. We were smart enough not to assemble them into really neat cannons until we got them home.

Tresi, I about choked laughing.

You where probably one of those slickers who drove everyone to drivers ed.

Oh to be young and smart, what a wicked combination!

[gocanes719]

Any of you guys have any arc welding skills that you were required to complete? The only skill I ever had growing up was to weld passes on a piece of plate. running beads all the way across the plate and then welding more beads on top of the ones we just completed.

[tresi]

Originally Posted by gocanes719

Any of you guys have any arc welding skills that you were required to complete? The only skill I ever had growing up was to weld passes on a piece of plate. running beads all the way across the plate and then welding more beads on top of the ones we just completed.

I metals I we had to do stinger beads, butt and Tee joints in flat, horzontal vertical and overhead positions.

[LSX89RS]

ive pretty much tought myself. experimenting, not catching myself on fire, that sort of stuff=)

[gwiley]

No - our large school (600 kids in teh graduating class) did not offer a metal shop. I think that kids should be required to sit through a 1 hour orientation for each of the vocational classes before they decline the offer to take them. I am constantly amazed at how many settle for so much less because they have preconceptions about vocations that they could happily fill.

I didn't teach myself to weld until I was 40 and I regret not having tried to build the skill sooner.

[knucklepanshovel]

my best friends dad taught me to stick when I was 9 years old, & I still use an engine lift I built when I was 13, & it has pulled over 1,000 motors.

when I took welding in school I already knew how to stick & I also knew how to torch so teacher worked with me on tig.

Mig is what I had the hardest problem learning, I was 22 before I could do quality mig welds. now I am just trying to re-learn stick its been 15 years+ since I really stick welded.

my vote is to have every kid try all processes & let them decide which one they want to concentrate on. in college all I wanted to do was TIG. but had to force myself to learn MIG. now I am most comfortable with MIG, & torch, but pretty rough with everything else.

as for making weapons in school.... whats the problem?????? in my day almopst every male student carried a pocket knife or bowie knife on their side, when I went to school kids were lined up to make guns in machine shop, both high school & college. teachers made sure no gun left without the barrel being rifled. it was a crime to have a smooth barrel under 18 inches long, in college I made a 15 round clip for my 25 that I carried with me everyday through college. 1 student made a longer barrel for his semi auto & threaded it for a silencer he also made in shop class.

I bought my first gun in school in 9th grade, a 32 semi auto, & my teacher thought it was cool. we traded guns all the time in school, including trading with teachers, janitors, & other faculity, it was great. so what happened to the system? I graduated from high school in 1986, & went to college 8 years. & almost never went a day without a gun & saw guns all the time. it was accepted....... now its taboo? hell I remember saying hi to our principal & walking by with a pistol & going behind the school to test fire in the bank behind the school. MAN HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Later,
Randy