R.O.P.S welding ?

[boilermaker]

ok here we go , I hered a rumor in the last week that john deere and cat have a class they offer for certification repair of there rops systems, has any one out there hered of this ?

[zapster]

What's ROPS???

...zap!

[David R]

Roll Over Protection System.

David

[enlpck]

Roll Over Protection System

Roll bar and associated fixin's on heavy equipment. Generally deeply engineered, compared to the cage in a race vehicle, due to the much greater weight involved, and the comparatively wide range of potential rollover situations. For example, most tractor ROPS will provide reasonable protection even if the machine powers-over (tie the rear drive wheels solid and full power the thing to flip it--- NOT recommended) Also includes things like restraint attachment, and the design usually also goes for minimal number of attachment points.

Not legal under OSHA to build your own or modify without the manufacturer authorization. In fact, it is considered preferable to not have ROPS than to have one that is bodged on, as a failing ROPS may increase risk of injury or death. (See the FACE database for numerous examples: http://www.public-health.uiowa.edu/f...%20States.html )

[gnm109]

Originally Posted by enlpck

Roll Over Protection System

Roll bar and associated fixin's on heavy equipment. Generally deeply engineered, compared to the cage in a race vehicle, due to the much greater weight involved, and the comparatively wide range of potential rollover situations. For example, most tractor ROPS will provide reasonable protection even if the machine powers-over (tie the rear drive wheels solid and full power the thing to flip it--- NOT recommended) Also includes things like restraint attachment, and the design usually also goes for minimal number of attachment points.

Not legal under OSHA to build your own or modify without the manufacturer authorization. In fact, it is considered preferable to not have ROPS than to have one that is bodged on, as a failing ROPS may increase risk of injury or death. (See the FACE database for numerous examples: http://www.public-health.uiowa.edu/f...%20States.html )

Another problem with ROPS is that they are supposed to be used with seat belts. If no seat belts are worn, the operator can come out of the seat and be struck by the ROPS if a vehicle tips over. Since ROPS were inroduced in the 1980's, there have been many fatalities incurred in this manner.

I think you're right about making your own. I think they have to be approved by the manufacturer. Heaven help the person who make his own and gets accused of injuring someone.

[zapster]

Thanks guys!

Learn something new every day..

...zap!

[Dipper Welder64]

this is out of MSHA Regulations:
http://www.msha.gov/30cfr/77.403-1.htm

(f) Field welding on ROPS shall be performed by welders who are certified by the coal mine operator or equipment distributor as being qualified in accordance with the American Welding Society Structural Welding Code AWS D1.1-73, or Military Standard MIL-STD 248, or the equivalent thereof.

Also don't forget the cab that is protected by ROPS is called FOPS (falling object protection) and is treated the same.

AWS D14.3/D14.3M:2005 SPECIFIC...
This specification provides standards for producing structural welds used in the manufacture of earthmoving, construction, and agricultural equipment. Such equipment is defined as self-propelled, on- ...

[Birdhunter1]

Being aroudn farm equipment all of my life I fully understand the need and reasoning for ROPS systems, but what baffles me is the canopy they make to go on them that only attaches to the ROPS itself at the rear of the tractor and is unsupported at the front. It seems to me that in teh event of a rollover the ROPS will hold up fine and you will be safe.. except for the fact that the canopy is going to fold at the ROPS and sandwich you in your seat where you are "safely" belted in.

Anybody got any ideas on it?

EX:New-Holland 4630


Seems to me if it rolled sideways it will crumple and whack you right in the chest and send you backwards, since the seats are very securely fastened to the tractor you are going to be sandwiched.

[olddad]

Originally Posted by Dipper Welder64

AWS D14.3/D14.3M:2005 SPECIFIC...
This specification provides standards for producing structural welds used in the manufacture of earthmoving, construction, and agricultural equipment. Such equipment is defined as self-propelled, on- ...

That's the most recent cert I held, expired June 5...another with a shelf life of 6 months if not active add it to the collection of expired paper

[olddad]

Originally Posted by Birdhunter1

EX:New-Holland 4630


Seems to me if it rolled sideways it will crumple and whack you right in the chest and send you backwards, since the seats are very securely fastened to the tractor you are going to be sandwiched.

Unless you roll it against a tree or something similar it should only bend it up, fold the side of it in a little.

[backuproller]

call one of the dealers and ask.
as far as the rops, they are heavily engineered and tested. my brother was working for me in a crushing outfit, running a CAT972 front end loader stockpiling the crushed asphalt. we were in the hills in johnson city TN. and stockpiling on the side of the hill. on a trip up to dump some product a boulder slid off the hill onto the road he had built. doing production work of course he was wide open and never seen the rock. when he hit it it flipped the loader off the road and he rolled 2.5 times landing on the cab. he was hanging from the seat-belt like a wet dog when i got to him. he had enough sense about him to turn the loader off on the way over. after getting him out the cab i used the trackhoe to flip the loader back up. my brother was fine, besides being a little shaken up. i changed the oil in the loader and fired it up. the only thing wrong with the tractor was the fiberglass FOPS was cracked a little. went to the cat place and bought a new one. also bent a mirror which we pulled back out.

i never thought a 55,000 lb tractor could land on its cab and not crush anything. but my hats off to the engineers at CAT, that puppy held up and saved my brothers life.

[denrep]

Backuproller, My hair stood up reading that one. Lucky man, your brother.



Birdhunter1,
Reason for ROPS post placement, ideas? Well maybe:
During a side rollover operator or limbs can be pushed away with less crushing danger? Trade off for easy boarding of machine? The visibility factor?

[zapster]

How about a funny car style cage with arm and leg restraints..
Just like in a dragster..

...zap!

[David R]

On the ford tractor it looks like the "roll bar" is above and behind your head. The top is just a sunshade. You are safe between the roll bar and the nose of the tractor. I modified a lot of overhead guards when I worked for forklift dealers. We had a Lincoln idealarc 250 AC/DC. Worked pretty good. I always switched the polarity to AC or DC- before I walked away from it.

David

[Birdhunter1]

The canopy on that tractor in the pisture is not an overhead guard it is a canopy for shade only, not a falling objets barrier. It just seems to me that the canopy woudl bucke and smah you in a rollover since the ROPS itself is not going to move.

[Me!]

Originally Posted by David R

I always switched the polarity to AC or DC- before I walked away from it.

David

Thats just wrong!
But I like it!

How many times did someone try using it like that?

[denrep]

Would a ROPS have helped, especially at 00:47? :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc2ibjiCQ0g

At 1:16 that has to be the world's fastest forklift!

[Dipper Welder64]

denrep not drops- ROPS

[denrep]

Originally Posted by Dipper Welder64

denrep not drops- ROPS

I hope I never need either one!

Those look like m4k's coming "otta" the sky.
Rops should be strapped over hood, ready for easy "do it yourself" assembly; once you find it!

How 'bout those Hough (as in tough) loaders with 25" tires, huh?

[Goulet!]

Back to the original question. I guess no has taken there classes? Boilermaker does the source of the rumer have any more info. iam interested now.

[Dipper Welder64]

D1.1 is the qualification that apply's to D14.3, so it is my understanding if you are certified and follow repair criteria provided by manufacturer, that should be all you need. What may be needed is qc inspection to certify repairs this will need researched further.

[boilermaker]

well the aws cert is great and covers a lot of msha requirements but we are dealing with cat here awscert great but no way will cat give you there stamp to put on a machine after you have welded it , un less you have cats little piece of paper that says yes this welder took our class and passed and we back up his certification , if god forbid there is an accident and as it was mentioned earlier seat belts not being warn , and one for seat belts if any of you out there like me weld on this equipment for a liveing ( check the date on the seat belts ) they are suppose to be changed every 3 yrs , CYA. and back to the question regaurding cat and class offered , I hered this from a aws welding instructor , so I am like a lot of you , trying to find out for sure , because its a very ugly thing if something goes wrong .and as much backing as possible is needed .any way look forward to replies and I am also trying to find out about this ,

[olddad]

Send it my way...I've still got my CAT stamp and could update my D14.3 with a phone call. Never took that class but used to do some weld training for them when the CWI was too busy...don't think I left on bad terms...lol

[Dipper Welder64]

We change the seat belts at our mine too, We run caterpillar as well as hitachi and others, we rebuild the cab supports for cat haul trucks 785 and 789 which is considered as part of the rops, I am the NDT inspector and we replace the plate according to cat standards using U.T. thickness gauge. Cat in theyre infinite wisdom chose to allow exhaust to get in the inside of the component not such a good Idea in my book. Also it sounds to me you are looking for recertification of Rops which in the 12 years of mining and 5 minesites in Nevada I have never witnessed, Good luck!

[Hammack_Welding]

Perhaps I am crazy, but In my opinion if a situation was to occur and you were challenged in court. I would bet that an AWS cert that covers the type of repair would ALWAYS carry more leverage than a cert by a manufacturer. I have dealt with several of the CAT dealers in my area, and that I know of they don't have a certified welder employed. I know that if it were my butt on the line then I would far rather have someone with an AWS cert do the repair vs. someone who only has a paper that cat says can repair a R.O.P.S Like I said maybe I am crazy but that's my way of thinking. I weld on CAT, JohnDeere, Case, etc.... equipment day in and day out, Fact of the matter is I don't have a cert period, but you can bet when i repair something it is done right! I guess I am just curious why do you feel you need CAT's stamp of approval? Legal reasons? Don't get me wrong. I am not saying someone doesn't need Certification. in some lines of work it is a necessity, but others like myself. I don't see where it will benefit.