Can This Be Repaired?

[bearxtreme]

This is from a John deere 510c backhoe, not sure if it cast steel or iron, its the front axle. What procedure should I use and what Rod? Mabey its beyone repair, but there hard to locate around here and a new one is over 2000.00, so really like to be able to repair.. Any advice..

[elvergon]

Zappppp where are you man?

[sn0border88]

sure, bevel, weld, plate, assemble.

Though im sure you will need to use a bar or some sort of jig to keep the holes aligned.

[David R]

Hell yeah, John deere uses good steel. Give it s spark test and see.

You wold be best off making a new piece with a hole in it and welding it on where its big. Like the other piece is broke off. Use the other side for measurements. Install the king pin when you weld it.

You could weld the piece back on for the king pin, but it would have to be machined, so its easier to have em make you a block and weld it on. Many passes of 7018.

He musta hit sumpin hard!

I don't see any grease at all in there.

David

[denrep]

No problem. I would cut a "C" out of the appropriate width plate. A guess - maybe about 3" x 8" plate. Machine and align the king pin holes, and bearing surface. Weld the new "end" to the cleaned up axle. Type of weld and fit-up to axle will depend on plate design of fabricated end.

There are other ways, this is probably the best way to insure easy machining for good kingpin fit; and to allow maximum weld area.

Good Luck

[bearxtreme]

Should I weld the broke off top piece back on, I never found the rest off the bottom piece so i will have to fab that piece, so do anyone know what kinda steel this is , Im guessing cast steel, so 7018 on a dc welder should be fine , should it be preheated first , will this be prone to cracking, im sorry , but I never welded anything like this before and it has to carry a fair bit of weight, thanks for the replys

[lars66]

Originally Posted by David R

Hell yeah, John deere uses good steel. Give it s spark test and see.

You wold be best off making a new piece with a hole in it and welding it on where its big. Like the other piece is broke off. Use the other side for measurements. Install the king pin when you weld it.

You could weld the piece back on for the king pin, but it would have to be machined, so its easier to have em make you a block and weld it on. Many passes of 7018.

He musta hit sumpin hard!

I don't see any grease at all in there.

David

Dry as a bone must have been a handfull to steer. I would do the repair as David suggested. With some carefull prep and line up you should be able to weld that up using the pin as a line up and welding with the action- reaction method, in other words if the weld pulls one way weld where it will pull back equal the opposite way.

[denrep]

Originally Posted by bearxtreme

Should I weld the broke off top piece back on, I never found the rest off the bottom piece so i will have to fab that piece...

I say no to welding the top piece back on this time. Too tough to align and very difficult machining of welded bores. Also very critical weld area, with little clearance for extra reinforcement. You would have two repaired bores, and two load surfaces, with difficult machining and alignment issues.

I think David R was also suggesting building the "C". This makes for easy bench work machining. Probably two hours shop time would buy a ready to weld "C". Also, the weld area will be less critical, more accessible, and spread over a larger area, with just a little concern for pin alignment.

I've made that repair several ways. Including fabing a complete axle. Any way you choose; for a lasting repair, you must have proper kingpin fit, which is essential to uniform loading, which prevents early "pounding-out" of the knuckle. Proper kingpin fit, is achieved only when the holes are align bored and reamed to fit. Both bearing load surfaces also must be smooth and perpendicular to both kingpin bores. This kind of fit-up is easy; on the bench with a small piece of raw steel. The same job is an absolute fight, in the field, with welded up misaligned bores.

I'll try to post a picture of a "C", if it would help.
How about a used axle?

[bearxtreme]

Im working on finding a used axle, but most dont want to part with them, if u could post a pic of a C that would be great, and many thanks for all the replys so far..

[littlefuzz]

It'll be a bitch keeping it lined up. Bevel out the top and bottom as much as you can and fill back up.

[aczeller]

i like to live by the motto that: Anything can be fixed with Duct tape... it's just a question of how much... lol... seriously tho, i'd listen to David R., backuproller (check out this thread: http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=15768), TozziWelding, and Zap, ... they all have had a pretty good run with these types of repairs. that thread from back up roller isn't EXACTLY the same scenario you are in, but similar i believe. also, check out these threads:

http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=15511
http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=15267
http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=14039


Later,
Andy

[denrep]

Trouble is, we're not addressing in detail, the #1 challenge this repair presents. - How are bearxtreme's repaired kingpin bores, going to be precision machined, to insure a lasting proper fit?

I forgot about the "C" pics; I'll try to take some today yet.

[aczeller]

I didn't think about this before, but how thick are those pieces that will need to be welded? looking at the pics, i would venture to guess that a fair bit of pre-heat would be in order, and possibly a double-bevel set-up (bevel on each side of the joint, on both sides... from the side, it woudl look like the attached picture. the passes are numbered... use more or less as required.) as far as settings and what not, ask the other guys, i don;thave anyexpereince with sticking anything.

Later,
Andy

[denrep]

Replace with a simple strong end like these:
Attachment 14250

The pic that I marked with dimensions, is probably close to what you need. It's a proven design used on 15,000# machines. Static load probably 5000# on this axle. Big deal, right? Well this design has proven capable of taking "the launch". The launch - The lift truck is overloaded to the point that steering axle is off the ground. Then; the load shifts ahead, lifting the rear even higher, too late; the truck is gonna "launch" out from under the load. The launch, spits the machine out and crashing down onto the steer axle. In extreme cases, the launch and bounce sends the drive axle airborne too, then the entire machine weight lands on the steering axle. Everyone has to do it once!

I fixed a bunch of ends using this design. It has proven capable of taking serious abuse, on rough terrain. Never snapped an ear off. Also, the high-dollar OE kingpins, are changed to an inexpensive highway truck part. I once put plate steel "C" ends on an oddball German built AWD machine. It had been written off as too expensive to repair.

I can't imagine a more practical way to fix the snapped end. Except for maybe building a complete axle out of plate.

[tanglediver]

Only about preheating, yes, preheat to 150 degrees minimum.

[lewray]

Nice pics DREP

I believe that would work very well

[bearxtreme]

I was wondering if I made a "C" out of 1"plate and squared of the end of the axle and welded the "C" to the end of the axle, I would have to cut the bottom of flush with the top , then I could weld the "c" on and it would be welded all the way around the end of the axle, what ya think?

[denrep]

Sure that would work, and look clean. Although 1" may be a little light.
How tall were the original ears, at the kingpin bushings?

Are you thinking about welding up the "C" or "I" out of three pieces, rather than cutting it out of one
block?

Compare kingpin angle to the other side.

[bearxtreme]

I was thinking about cutting it out of 3 peices, and welding it together then welding it onto the axle, 1 " might not be strong enough, but i could put another 1" plate on top and bottom and tie that in to axle, this would make the ear 2" thick overall..just a thought, will monady ill have to do something, patience running out looking for a used one...

[David R]

I think you need to make the new piece the same as the old one. You have a perfect pattern, the broken one. Steel will hold up as well as cast steel inch for inch. The kingpin has to fit. Needle bearings or bushings? Got a reamer?

David