Tig - Fillet Weld

[AcademyKP03]

Any advice on attacking a fillet weld? Everytime I try; its hard to get in the corner of the plates; and when I do - seems that the arc wanders and i bit of filler everywhere. A real mess. Do I have to choose a side and then somehow get the filler rod to puddle in the crevice?

Any advice or resources would be appreciated!

thanks!

[zapster]

I know what you mean..
You need to build the "bridge"

Start with the heat on the bottom plate..
Your table is one big heat sink..

Get the bottom piece good and hot untill the shiney puddle starts...
Then aim the torch at the top piece and do the same..

You need to go back and forth between the two untill the shiney puddle is on both pieces then add a dip of filler and get it to go betwen the two puddles..

Feed it in from the top and let gravity do its thing..

Once the "bridge" is in place then your good to go..

Yup its a pain at times but you'll get it..

...zap!

[Joe H]

Yup, what Zap said...

It kinda sounds like you might try cranking up the heat a little too.

[AcademyKP03]

Roger - - thanks for the advice.

I'll try it out and post pics

Thanks again

[AcademyKP03]

So i'm add filler from the top and not the side right?

Am I supposed to go from right to left? Like I've been doing with my practice beads on flat stock?

I tried going from the side -- and it was like the arc keep getting in the way. I'll see how add the filler from the top works ....

[Rojodiablo]

Also, if you can, put a weight, or clamp the 2 pieces together while you are getting started. Sometimes, the arc can spread the gap, making the initial tack tough to get going.

[malich]

If you're welding mild steel, I found it easiest to use a very sharp point on the tungsten to focus the arc in the joint.

[AcademyKP03]

Yesterday I spent the better part of an hour attempting to get the "bridge" formed; but it just seemed like I was doing something wrong. I started on the bottom, formed a puddle - then I would switch to the other wide; and formed a puddle -- and then I don't know where to go after that .. do I keep putting the arc on the bottom puddle and then go to the top puddle; back and forth? and attempted to put the filler from the top didn't seem to work, neither did putting the filler from the left side ..... Does the arc ever go right in the crevice? Is the idea to just get the filler to kinda of pool in the joint?

Any more advice would be welcome; thanks.

[Joe H]

Crank up the heat! Turn it up around 10 amps. Learn to use that pedal.

Once you get the 2 pieces joined you can just push the puddle right down the center. It's easy after that.

No, you don't want the filler to just pool in the joint. You have to puddle the puddle to melt it. NEVER melt the filler with the arc.

[Supe]

You're either not running enough amperage, or your arc length is too long. You need to gradually transition from the lower plate to the top so the base material wets out into the top plate, don't just skip across the joint quickly.

[AcademyKP03]

What do you mean, push the puddle? From above? Or the side? I have no problem getting the puddle started on either side; its what to do after I get the puddle formed.

I attached some pics to show you where I'm at.

Hope it helps =)

[AcademyKP03]

Also - on a last note; I switched back to 2% red / from pure tungsten; believe it improved my welds (although, hard to believe looking at my pictures)

Should I be on balance around 6.0?

Pulse?

Thanks for any guidance!

[HGHS-Corp]

2 things i gotta ask?

How thick is the material?. And how many amps?

[AcademyKP03]

Originally Posted by HGHS-Corp

2 things i gotta ask?

How thick is the material?. And how many amps?

-- It's 1/8" alum
-- Amps around 150


----

Here's my latest progress (attached)

I'm using pulse at 10 pps

amps turned down to 130

Believe it better than my last set of welds; although, has ALOT of progress to go .... this time, I got a pool going on the bottom and side ... and "pushed" the bottom puddle into the crevice ...and on the side (vertical wall) - I dabbed the filler until it created a bridge with the bigger puddle down below .. it was kinda of all over the place .. sometimes I had to go back and add heat to fill in a gap ....

my goal was to have filler in the crack =)

[AcademyKP03]

Originally Posted by HGHS-Corp

2 things i gotta ask?

How thick is the material?. And how many amps?

3rd try - - turned down amps to 120
pulsed @ 10

Seems like its getting better ..... still aways to go ....

Attached latest progress

[ski_dwn_it]

I would try just using a "fuse" type weld to start with and get a feel for melting the two pieces together....and then once you get a good looking weld there.......then start adding the filler rod. That is how I taught myself and it seemed to speed things along......others might not agree...but to each his own.

[AcademyKP03]

Originally Posted by ski_dwn_it

I would try just using a "fuse" type weld to start with and get a feel for melting the two pieces together....and then once you get a good looking weld there.......then start adding the filler rod. That is how I taught myself and it seemed to speed things along......others might not agree...but to each his own.

Can you explain a "fuse" type weld? Thanks =)

Here's my latest attempt:

[Supe]

First off, turn the pulser off, and leave it off. Forget about the wave balance as well, it's not going to make enough of a difference, and there's no point d*cking with the machine until the fundamentals are down.

I think you're misinterpreting what it means to form a pool on the bottom, and the whole push thing.

Start out with your tungsten point just fractions of an inch more towards the bottom of the plate than the top. Just enough so that it doesn't begin to burn the top plate away while getting a puddle to form.

You want to see the bottom plate almost where the two pieces meet just turn shiney and liquidous. In all honesty, you should be able to just sit and hold that puddle there. For practice, move it around a bit, that puddle should look the same regardless of where you move the tungsten, nice, shiny and focused.

Once you've got that puddle on the bottom plate just sitting there, creep the arc up to where the two plates meet. Again, we're only talking fractions of an inch here. When done right, you'll see both pieces of material just suck together, with that nice, shiny pool now sitting in the root of the joint. Like ski_dwn_it said, practice with no filler, just getting this little shiny molten pool to fuse both pieces the entire way down.

You want to work on keeping this puddle no more than maybe 3/16ths of an inch on either side of the plate for beginners. If you have to feather the pedal to do so, that's fine, back off the heat some.

When they say push the weld, it really only indicates the direction of travel. If you're right handed, you want to start from the right side of the plate with the torch angled so that the tungsten points slightly left. As you weld from right to left along the plate, you add your filler in from the left side. In other words, you want to add the filler to where the arc is being "pushed" rather than dragged. Don't angle the tungsten to the left and travel to the right pulling the arc behind you and trying to add metal that way.

[AcademyKP03]

Thanks for the advice; that was very informative and clear. I'm going to turn off wave balance and pulse and focus on getting the "correct" puddle formed. I know for a fact, that my arc is too far away -- and I think, to make up for the distance, i'm really cranking down on the pedal. thanks again

[AcademyKP03]

Originally Posted by Supe

First off, turn the pulser off, and leave it off. Forget about the wave balance as well, it's not going to make enough of a difference, and there's no point d*cking with the machine until the fundamentals are down.

I think you're misinterpreting what it means to form a pool on the bottom, and the whole push thing.

Start out with your tungsten point just fractions of an inch more towards the bottom of the plate than the top. Just enough so that it doesn't begin to burn the top plate away while getting a puddle to form.

You want to see the bottom plate almost where the two pieces meet just turn shiney and liquidous. In all honesty, you should be able to just sit and hold that puddle there. For practice, move it around a bit, that puddle should look the same regardless of where you move the tungsten, nice, shiny and focused.

Once you've got that puddle on the bottom plate just sitting there, creep the arc up to where the two plates meet. Again, we're only talking fractions of an inch here. When done right, you'll see both pieces of material just suck together, with that nice, shiny pool now sitting in the root of the joint. Like ski_dwn_it said, practice with no filler, just getting this little shiny molten pool to fuse both pieces the entire way down.

You want to work on keeping this puddle no more than maybe 3/16ths of an inch on either side of the plate for beginners. If you have to feather the pedal to do so, that's fine, back off the heat some.

When they say push the weld, it really only indicates the direction of travel. If you're right handed, you want to start from the right side of the plate with the torch angled so that the tungsten points slightly left. As you weld from right to left along the plate, you add your filler in from the left side. In other words, you want to add the filler to where the arc is being "pushed" rather than dragged. Don't angle the tungsten to the left and travel to the right pulling the arc behind you and trying to add metal that way.

I had some success; as I formed the puddle and got closer to the top piece - I did get the top piece to puddle and even got the puddle to "suck" into each other ... However, most of the time, the top piece melted away - and went "up" - so that literally there is a gap of air between the two pieces. Am I using too much heat?

I turned off the wave / pulse - amps set around 150

I attached a picture -- the right side of the picture; I used filler -- then tried to go w/out to the left of it ....

[Joe H]

Believe it or not, that's probably from not enough heat.

You want the puddle to form instantly, or very near instantly. You have to work fast. Once you get the first puddle joining the two pieces back off the pedal a hair. You really need to get to the point that you control the amperage with the pedal without even thinking about it.

My suggestion is to practice with steel until you get a real good feel for it.

[AcademyKP03]

Originally Posted by Joe H

Believe it or not, that's probably from not enough heat.

You want the puddle to form instantly, or very near instantly. You have to work fast. Once you get the first puddle joining the two pieces back off the pedal a hair. You really need to get to the point that you control the amperage with the pedal without even thinking about it.

My suggestion is to practice with steel until you get a real good feel for it.

What do you recommend the amps be set at?

[hotrodder]

Academy,

you don't more heat, 120A is fine for 1/8" aluminium. your arc length is still too long- the puddle(s) in the last pics were miles away from the root (were the pieces meet). the longer the arc length the less 'focused' the heat- you're putting heat into the piece BUT not focused where you need it

i think you're maybe trying to 'run before you can walk'. if you're new to TIG the learning curve will be much easier if you stay with steel until manipulation of the torch,filler and pedal become almost second nature. steel is far more forgiving of technique/cleanliness so overall, you'll learn faster if you begin with steel and progress to Al once competant with steel

either way have a good read here, http://www.millerwelds.com/education...tips/TIG_tips/
pay particular attention to the torch/filler angles for different joints. despite what the article says regarding arc length, 1/8" is about the max you want- 1/4" is too long

[pulser]

AcademyKP03,

Your welds are way to hot and huge.

Particularly with aluminum, because the heat conducts away so fast, you need to keep the arc very, very, concentrated at the root of the joint. The root of the joint is where the plates are touching each other, this is where you need concentrated heat to melt them together.

You need the tip of the tungsten as close as you can get to root. This "arc gap" should be probably no more than 1/8", closer if you can do it without dipping or hitting the tunsten with the wire.

When the tungsten is closer, the arc is smaller in diameter, so the energy to the joint is more concentrated in a smaller spot.

Point at the root, slightly angled toward the bottom plate, to give more heat to the bottom, since it's the top plate that tends to melt away easy.

Do not weave, travel straight down the joint.
No side to side, no circles, no nothing, straight down the joint at a constant arc length, constant speed, constant torch angle.

Since aluminum conducts heat so fast, you need to hit it hot and hit it fast. The more you lolly-gag around, starting out cold, weaving, trying to bridge up one side and the other, traveling slow, etc., the more the heat is spreading out into the plate, building up and leading to a big fat weld and a burn-thru. Hit it hot, melt the root, dab some filler to help bridge the joint, and go.

You need a clean fresh tungsten tip, once you dip, stop and regrind, the arc is too spread out with a crapped up tungsten. If your machine will hold a sharpened tip, great, but if your machine balls the tungsten, just try to keep the ball small. Get rid of the pure tungsten and go with Ceriated, Lantanated, or Thoriated, any one of these with carry more current before melting.

[Joe H]

Originally Posted by pulser

AcademyKP03,




Since aluminum conducts heat so fast, you need to hit it hot and hit it fast. The more you lolly-gag around, starting out cold, weaving, trying to bridge up one side and the other, traveling slow, etc., the more the heat is spreading out into the plate, building up and leading to a big fat weld and a burn-thru. Hit it hot, melt the root, dab some filler to help bridge the joint, and go.

.

Exactly!


BTW, why are you trying to learn with aluminum?