Why cant my mig be this nice???

[fordman]

I was just doing some browsing and saw this. It seems like whatever I do, with my new welder I cannot produce a nice concave bead! I am defintely not confident with my welds with that welder, nothing feels right! The digital aspect of my welder is the only thing I can think of that is throwing me off, its rediculous.. I may end up selling it for a new miller 210 or something?

[Dmaxer]

Originally Posted by fordman

I was just doing some browsing and saw this. It seems like whatever I do, with my new welder I cannot produce a nice concave bead! I am defintely not confident with my welds with that welder, nothing feels right! The digital aspect of my welder is the only thing I can think of that is throwing me off, its rediculous.. I may end up selling it for a new miller 210 or something?

Attachment 16661

Tried your link and it didn't work. Sorry!

[jamlit]

I fixed your post so the picture showed up fordman

I think the weld in the pic is tigged. You can get close to that look with mig. Pulse mig will give you a similar look as well as the technique used with a regular mig. ZTFab told me to use a circular motion while welding. I found this to work fairly well for me but I liked the fact that I was moving the arc onto fresh metal and getting great penetration then reinforcing the weld I just laid down. Also the push pull method can cause this. Spending money on a new welding most likely will not help.

[olddad]

That looks like it came out of a positioner...you'll never match that by hand.

[Dmaxer]

Oops, just after I posted above, the photo appeared. I don't understand why I couldn't see it before.

That photo, if it's of a MIG weld trying to look like a TIG weld, has to be the result of the weldor's hand motion (up and back, aka stitch motion). There's more to it for sure if you're not a pro. Perfect settings on the proper machine for the material are necessary and the result of practice, practice, practice. I used to have a link to a welding video showing the motion, but can't find it now.

[David R]

Pulsed MIG will not make that look. Its the nut behind the wheel. The man holding the mig gun makes those dime like beads. More heat, pretty quick motion. Circular, or ahead and back depending on the situation. It can be done, but......Not necessary. Forehand is the first thing that comes to mind. If you do any kind of weave, you need more heat especially circular motion. Concave bead..... not good. A bead should be flat across the top to be the strongest. Anything more than that (convex) is wasted metal. If the puddle is hot enough, a back and forth or a UUUUU motion can result in that look too.

Olddad is right on, it was done on a positioner, probably vertical up or some where between that and flat.

Forehand, flatter bead less penetration. Backhand (pull) deeper penetration, taller narrower bead.

I don't need no stinkin dimes!

David

[-olllllllo-]

done a few things in my life that compare to the skill required to make that weld. two off the top of my head are cake decorating, and tattooing.

[littlefuzz]

It's a mig bead in the pic.

Originally Posted by David R

Pulsed MIG will not make that look. Its the nut behind the wheel. The man holding the mig gun makes those dime like beads. More heat, pretty quick motion. Circular, or ahead and back depending on the situation. It can be done, but......Not necessary. Forehand is the first thing that comes to mind. If you do any kind of weave, you need more heat especially circular motion. Concave bead..... not good. A bead should be flat across the top to be the strongest. Anything more than that (convex) is wasted metal. If the puddle is hot enough, a back and forth or a UUUUU motion can result in that look too.

Olddad is right on, it was done on a positioner, probably vertical up or some where between that and flat.

Forehand, flatter bead less penetration. Backhand (pull) deeper penetration, taller narrower bead.

I don't need no stinkin dimes!

David

Don't be hatin just cause you can't do it

[badassb5.5]

Originally Posted by jamlit

I fixed your post so the picture showed up fordman

I think the weld in the pic is tigged. You can get close to that look with mig. Pulse mig will give you a similar look as well as the technique used with a regular mig. ZTFab told me to use a circular motion while welding. I found this to work fairly well for me but I liked the fact that I was moving the arc onto fresh metal and getting great penetration then reinforcing the weld I just laid down. Also the push pull method can cause this. Spending money on a new welding most likely will not help.

Yep I would agree. If that isn't tig that has to be the cleanest mig weld I've ever seen. But still a damn nice weld... Very nice

[tommyj3]

That's definitely a mig weld done in a horizontal positioner. Very nice weld indeed.

[gnm109]

I say it's a TIG weld done in a positioner. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[MXtras]

I say MIG. You can see the small amount of crap at the crest of each bead.

This can be done easily with smaller diameter wire and a consistent forward, pause, forward, pause motion.

Scott

[David R]

When I get my positioner, I'll try it. No idea when that will be.

David

[olddad]

Originally Posted by MXtras

This can be done easily with smaller diameter wire and a consistent forward, pause, forward, pause motion.

Scott

Yep, but like David R pointed out, a smooth face is stronger...it'll be purty once it's wire buffed though.
Start the bead just before it rolls over the top and it sets up "OOO SO NICE"

[turboblown]

That is certainly MIG on a positioner with a consistant rotation speed on the shaft while making the weld.


If you've ever been in a driveshaft shop and watched the process, that's exactly what it looks like with MIG. These shops have it down to a science. And yes- it looks like that without pulse. I used to be at the shaft shop once a month when I was a psycho 4 wheeler in my 79 Dodge Sno-Commander.

[paintman]

i have a miller 210 and i cant match that bead,its probably someone way better at welding than me

[tanglediver]

Originally Posted by turboblown

That is certainly MIG on a positioner with a consistant rotation speed on the shaft while making the weld.


If you've ever been in a driveshaft shop and watched the process, that's exactly what it looks like with MIG. These shops have it down to a science. And yes- it looks like that without pulse. I used to be at the shaft shop once a month when I was a psycho 4 wheeler in my 79 Dodge Sno-Commander.

I concur, the weld is mig. The photo is deceiving in size. Really nice!

[fordman]

Here is the piece getting welded. http://pirate4x4.com/tech/harry/twis.../07welding.jpg Looks good to me, I am pretty sure its MIG

[dad]

I agree about the bead having to be AT LEAST flat. I however think that a small convex, is the best. I agree that you don't need to over weld; with a larger convex on most things. I also think that a continuous weld bead would be stronger than the stack of dimes.

[littlefuzz]

Originally Posted by dad

I also think that a continuous weld bead would be stronger than the stack of dimes.

The "stack of dimes" is continuous. Only the dumbazz "weldors" do the tack method. Maybe the tack method is good on some real thin material but not on anything structual.

[mb_welder]

I've worked in shops where all they know is the tack method...mainy for 3G welds. Suffice to say, I don't work in those shops anymore. Nothing says "Farm code" like zap...zap...zap... (no relation to the person, lol!)

Hell, I worked in a shop where they would zap tack uphill with metalcore, then downhill a metalcore weld overtop. In that shop, I pulled teeth to get an all position wire for all the uphill stuff, and the metalcore monkeys there didn't even show an interest in learning how to use it...fun stuff.

[littlefuzz]

There's no telling how many people actually "weld" with this method on structural stuff just because they think that's the way you get the stack of dimes appearance. I would bet there are several here at this site that do, but I would also bet no one would admit it.

[enlpck]

Slight convex is desirable. Concave is not. If you want a concave surface for cosmetic reasons or for load distribution, reprofile after the completion of welding by either grinding or machining.

See fig 4 (page 3) http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ldcracking.pdf

[turboblown]

I just don't understand why everyone wants the "dimes look" on critical or structural items.

It looks nice in some places like running and step boards, truck tool boxes and other cosmetic areas, but to me a weld that penetrates and is solid is what matters.

You want to see some schitty looking welds that are strong? Look into any stock car that runs in a sanctioned class all the way up to NASCAR.

[dad]

Originally Posted by littlefuzz

The "stack of dimes" is continuous. Only the dumbazz "weldors" do the tack method. Maybe the tack method is good on some real thin material but not on anything structual.

Maybe I used the wrong word. I realize that it is a continuous bead ( not tack after tack ). What I'm saying is that the stack of dimes comprimizes weld integrity, versus, a uniform bead, with no low and high spots, that makes the stack look. I know, people do it every, but bottom line is it is weaker. Kinda like a concave is typically weaker than a convex bead, as long as it isn't over welded.