Utility trailer

[Wildcat]

Building it for a friend.
Welded using my 0.35 fluxcore and 1/8 7018 (only rods I had but they work)
Sorry in advance for pic quality. Just bought a new macbook and can't convince the finance minister for a new camera.



Only weld pic that came out. Chipped but not brushed.


And I know I need to clean the garage. lol

[Mondo]

Nice welds!
That looks like it will be a nifty little trailer. Will this be covered or just decked flat?
BTW: can you show a closer pic of the connections in the middle.. where it looks like the towing tongue is tied to the center of the axle? What's that all about?
-Mondo

[Wildcat]

I'll get a pic of the center. It's a dump trailer and the friend wanted it powered but didn't want to pay for any extras so you chalk the wheels and put vehicle in reverse for 1' and it dumps for you. Drive forward 1' and it goes back down.
I used to have one like it a long time ago. Works well.
The sides are being built tomorrow or Thursday (if he brings me more steel).

[DSW]

Doesn't look like it will get much dump action with the deck less than 12-18" from the ground and with the length looking like 8-10'. I'd get him a shovel to go with it. I have a vision of lots of shoveling in his future.

Other than that it looks good. Can't wait to see some more picts of it finished in both the standard and dump position.

[Wildcat]

Dumps to 50 deg. I told him to get 15" rims with 235/75/15's and it would dump to 65 deg.
He said it would do fine. Another situation where you tell someone what would work and they decide something else. So is life.

[Wildcat]

Lucky me he was just here to drop off the wiring. He intends to use it to load his snow machine so I would think of it more as a tilt trailer for his purpose.

Here's a pic of the center.

[step7720]

looks awesome, but wouldn't the trailer bottom out on the hinge joint when its loaded? Still a great looking trailer though.

[DSW]

Wow, It's hard to believe it would go to that angle. I'd love to see picts of it in the dump position. Not doubting you, I just can not envision how it will work the way I see it built.

[Wildcat]

It won't bottom out unless he overloads it. It has a 2000lb axle and springs can handle 3000lb. I've had 1500lb on it and only compressed about a quarter of the distance..
Will have to get it out of the garage for the tilt pic. And correction to angle was one set of numbers over. Has 40 deg and would go to 55. Sorry for the confusion.

Keep the questions coming. May find something I've overlooked.

[Wildcat]

Here's a pic of it tilted


and one showing the angle. I know it looks a little off in the pic but it is 40 deg.


Thanks for the interest and the help making sure I'm not screwing it up. It's appreciated.

[DSW]

I think you are using the square wrong. If you flip it around that slanted side is at 45deg to the floor. The side rail looks much less than 40deg. My first look at the pict made me think less than 30 deg, maybe as little as 15deg.

Thanks for the pict BTW. I'm going to keep studying it to figure out just how it works.

Edit: OK! I figured out what you are doing wrong. You need to look at the number on the BOTTOM side of the rail NOT the top! Got me at first too. The numbers read from the corner and the top side has a different corner in relationship to the floor. Looks like your angle is about 22-25 deg.

[Wildcat]

Cool. Thanks. I learned something today. Looks like I wasn't just stealing air after all. Good thing my friend saw it tilted and didn't ask the angle then.
Thanks again.

[STwelder]

That is a nice looking trailer! And the welds, I could see looked good as well.
Keep posting pic's until you are finished.

[Hammack_Welding]

I'm gonna have to agree. That hinge where the tongue is mounted is gonna bottom out. Even if it doesn't hit when it's loaded it will when being pulled down the road. You will have alot more range of motion in the springs while moving, and loaded especially when on a bumpy road than you think. i feel like you are gonna wind up with a bent or broken axle pretty quick. Another thing is that is it isn;t usually a good practice to use springs with a heavier weight limit than the axle. Also with the tongue hinged that high off of the axle it will also create quite a bit of rotational force on the axle and probably try to turn it in the spring mounts. "most" tilt bed trailers I have dealt with that used springs had the tongue attached to the frame rather than the axle. Your work looks nice and clean but the design I am questioning.

[Mark...]

Hammack is right. Pretty much guaranteed to bottom out going down the road.

[Mondo]

Thanks for the close-up as requested!
Now I see how this works. Cool idea!
But like the others I am interested in the clearance between the tongue (and the pivot point) and the bottom of the deck frame... Is there adequate clearance to permit maximum spring compression while jouncing down the road loaded?
I would think you would need a good 12 inches with plates as guides to keep the tongue in line while towing, and a lock pin at the front to prevent it from yanking the axle around in the u-bolts while towing.

It's hard to see all these things from a thousand miles away.

-Mondo

[denrep]

Interesting tilt concept Wildcat.

I don't believe the tongue should be pinned at the frame. Since the drawbar is pinned to the axle, it must be free to travel in
both horizontal and vertical directions. Remember that the springs change length with loading, and also pivot in a slight arc,
with a radius centered at the front hanger. The pinned drawbar would travel with a different arc, causing a bind.

You could try it anyway; Sometimes on small light stuff, things will just work together, despite such details.

Thanks for the post Wildcat.

[Mondo]

Originally Posted by denrep

Interesting tilt concept Wildcat.

I don't believe the tongue should be pinned at the frame. Since the drawbar is pinned to the axle, it must be free to travel in
both horizontal and vertical directions. Remember that the springs change length with loading, and also pivot in a slight arc,
with a radius centered at the front hanger. The pinned drawbar would travel with a different arc, causing a bind.
You could try it anyway; Sometimes on small light stuff, things will just work together, despite such details.

Thanks for the post Wildcat.

Good point! I hadn't thought of that.
I just don't know about the "free to travel in ... horizontal...directions." I was thinking of twisting while cornering, especially on uneven terrain, like sidewalk humps or sharp turns onto or off a hill... Hence my thoughts of installing guide plates.

Maybe I should just sit back, be quiet, and watch.....

-Mondo

[Wildcat]

All good points. I may have to load her up and test it again. Could be right about bottoming out. I'll look again. I only did a static load and not under motion.
As for the axle vs spring wieght, I agree but he provided me the parts and I asked him to either get a stronger axle or lighter springs, but this is what he wants.
The rotationsl force on the axle isn't an issue since the tougne gets pinned through the front of the frame. Good catch though.
Keep them coming. I'd rather change stuff now and not have to do it in 6 months when something granades on him.

[Hammack_Welding]

Wildcat, I agree with denrep, the tongue doesn't need to be pinned if it is attached to the axle. With springs the tongue is gonna have to move with the axle (ie. twist, move front to back, and tilt) not stay stationary with the trailer frame. I have seen this design before, and even built a couple myself like it, but they all had axles welded hard to the frame without springs.

One other thing I'll mention, and this is friendly advice. I know what you mean by "they supplied the parts" but you have to remember that even though this is your friends trailer YOU are building it, and if it fails and hurts someone then you will be held liable. Sometimes you have to put your foot down as to the proper way of doing something. Little issues can and will come back to bite you in the butt.

[tanglediver]

Very interesting design. It raises a question or two, balance, tilt angle, loading...
Incidently...the angle looks less to me also. No difference, nice idea!

[daddy]

I share alot of the same sentiments as the other fellas. Please continue to update this build. I would like to see how it works out for you.

[Big_Eddy]

Why would you not have anchored the rear of the tongue to the underside of the trailer frame itself, in essentially the exact same place? You still have the same pivot without the torque on the axle tube, and without having to deal with changing geometry.

If you leave it as is, then when the springs compress, something will have to give. If you change the tonque pin to a sleeve - then all the pulling force will try to rotate the tongue at the U-Bolts, snap your anchors off the axle, or worse still create torque fatique failures in the axle tube.

For a snowmobile trailer - that is plenty of tilt - but the design concerns me - I'd hate to see it fail on the road, and if it does - isn't going to matter that he supplied the materials or the design - you built it.

[TSOR]

Originally Posted by Big_Eddy

Why would you not have anchored the rear of the tongue to the underside of the trailer frame itself, in essentially the exact same place? You still have the same pivot without the torque on the axle tube, and without having to deal with changing geometry.

If you leave it as is, then when the springs compress, something will have to give. If you change the tonque pin to a sleeve - then all the pulling force will try to rotate the tongue at the U-Bolts, snap your anchors off the axle, or worse still create torque fatique failures in the axle tube.

For a snowmobile trailer - that is plenty of tilt - but the design concerns me - I'd hate to see it fail on the road, and if it does - isn't going to matter that he supplied the materials or the design - you built it.

x2!
Just what I was thinking!

Also, nice welds! I never could get flux-core to look nice.

[Wildcat]

Already said I will double check clearance issues because I had only done a static load test

The tongue is pinned through the frame at the front of the trailer therefore eliminating the torque on the axle. The torque while tipping would be minimal.
I understand the concern with the axle. I wouldn't do it if I thought there was a chance that it would come apart. This was the design of a trailer my grandfather had on the farm. It was a commercially bought trailer and it put up with a lot of abuse.

Thanks about the fluxcore. It's what I learned on.