Ethanol #@%$^&%^

[farmersamm]

Around here: 10% Ethanol $3.53, Ethanol Free $3.63

I've got the old 300cu straight six in my Ford. Gets around 20mpg on the highway with regular gas.

Ethanol, around 17mpg. Doesn't start worth a darn when it's hot. Doesn't run too good when it's hot. Crap tries to vapor lock even though I've got fuel infection.

Now go figure. Ten cents a gallon cheaper (around 3%). 3mpg less (around 17%)

You can't tell me this is good stuff. Costs a fortune to produce, haul to processors, and increases total gas consumption in the U.S. due to lousy mileage. Not to mention what it does to fuel system seals over time.

Top that off by increased food prices. My feed for my cattle is going through the roof because so much of the corn crop had been diverted to ethanol production. Same with the feedlots.

WTH

[Burnit]

I hear ya man, We don't have a choice here, its all got 10% ethanol in it. They are really pushing it as a fuel here. Last weekend the Harley 105th Anniversary was going on in Milwaukee, there were ads all over the place pushing E85 and what not.

People are in love with the idea that it is made here and its renewable. Morons.

I am "corn-fed" white trash The way I see it is we need the stuff to feed the dairy cattle and the humans. I mean its still relatively cheap at the grocery store but it used to be real cheap.

The yuppies around here argue that "its all over the place! Why cant we use it for fuel?"
That is an actual quote from a party I was at last weekend (friends of the wifeys parents)

I guess they think that these boys are growin thousands of acres of sillage every year for kicks They just got it lying around doin nothing, lets use our food for gas.

[MoonRise]

Yup.

Dang idjits making laws and regulations that are short-sighted and usually do more harm than good in the medium run. And usually lots more harm in the long run.

A few years ago the idjits in charge mandated the use of MTBE fuel additive ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE ) to 'make less pollution'. Sounds good on the surface of things, the reality was that about the only vehicles the oxygenated gas would help make less tailpipe emissions were old un-tuned carbureted non-computer controlled behemoths. For all the tuned and/or computer-controlled engines, the effect on emissions was minimal or negligible. The effect on mileage was pretty much a -10%. So all the clean-burning engines now made 10% MORE emissions because they burned that much more fuel. It cost more at the pump, and it cost more because it lowered the MPG. $$$$$

Oh, and it also polluted ground-water all over the place. $$$$$$$$$$ (see above link).

Alcohol is also not across-the-board compatibile with fuel systems on MANY vehicles.

And the slightly 'lower' pump cost often is because of gov'mint subsidies (meaning OUR pockets!) to the ethanol producers. More $$$.

And as you found out, the MPG goes down. Noticeably. More $$$$.

Grrrrr.

[duaneb55]

Well at least you guys get it. Now if the rest of the country would see it for what it really is we might stand half a chance of getting things turned around.

Proponents sight Brazil as an example (80% ethanol) of how it can work and we can benefit from it but what they fail to take into account is how cheap the labor and primary 'fuel stock' (sugar cane) is there compared to the US and one of our crutial food sources - corn.

btw - I work within a sector of the petro-chemical industry.

Anyone care to discuss 'global warming'??

[tigmusky]

Ethanol = gay what is the up side? cleaner burning. b.s

[MoonRise]

btw, IIRC the cheap fuel price in Brazil is also due to HUGE government subsidies to keep the price at the pump down low. But the money still comes out of 'our' pockets, one way or another.

'Free health care'? Somebody pays for it, because not much in life is free!

[farmersamm]

Design the cars to run on methane

Give drivers Govt. subsidized bean chile

Install a tube under the drivers seat

Problem solved

[Oldtimer]

Man, I can't believe you guys. The government tells us ethanol is good for the country and ya'll question them? If the government figuered this out they have to be right don't they?

Yea, right. It takes more total energy to produce a gallon of the stuff than that gallon will return. But the government is still mandating it's use and spending our tax dollars subdizing it.

[olddad]

Originally Posted by tigmusky

Ethanol = gay what is the up side? cleaner burning. b.s

The only "upside" is not having to add a bottle of Heat at every fillup in the winter...lol

There should be an open season on libs, if we got rid of enough of them we could use our own resourses !!

[Hammack_Welding]

Originally Posted by olddad

The only "upside" is not having to add a bottle of Heat at every fillup in the winter...lol

There should be an open season on libs, if we got rid of enough of them we could use our own resourses !!

I agree whole heartedly. Just wait until food prices actually catch up with where they should be and the country will be crying a different tune. Yea, they are higher than they were, but they still haven't reached where they are going to be.

[daddy]

Amen, fellas.

[Tractapac]

Originally Posted by duaneb55

Well at least you guys get it. Now if the rest of the country would see it for what it really is we might stand half a chance of getting things turned around.

Proponents sight Brazil as an example (80% ethanol) of how it can work and we can benefit from it but what they fail to take into account is how cheap the labor and primary 'fuel stock' (sugar cane) is there compared to the US and one of our crutial food sources - corn.

btw - I work within a sector of the petro-chemical industry.

Anyone care to discuss 'global warming'??

No no, Duane, because there's some debate about global warming, they now call it Climate Change. Listen to the scientists about this, it's all too technical for us plebs and we should trust them to understand it for us. And then the politicians get involved and then there's all those snouts in the public trough that we have to pay for.

Global Warming has disappeared here, it's all Climate Change now. As a country we contribute less than .2% of CO2 emissions world wide but as of next year we won't be able to import standard light bulbs, they've all got to be the power saving "squint in the dark variety". No plans yet to cope with the mercury in them. Power and gas prices are set to rise, to encourage energy savings as well as encourage (force?) people to use public transport and they've budgeted to put money aside for the people that will struggle with their bills. Only trouble is for the government to give a dollar to anyone to help them it usually costs several dollars before they've given it.

This bio-fuel cary on has made life difficult for many people in lots of countries. I heard they're even having trouble getting flour o pasta in Italy because it's all gone to bio-fuel.

Global warming / climate change it's been going on for all of time. We probably haven't helped things but I doubt we can undo anything, either.

[farmersamm]

NO FLOUR FOR PASTA. WTH AM I GONNA DO FOR LASAGNA?

That makes this a world wide crisis. Geez.

Seriously. They ain't makin' any more land last time I heard. Suppose it's the same for oil. Gotta run out sometime. And most of us still talk about our big powerplants under the hood. Maybe it's time to get by with less. Our parents generation did, and they did a damn good job of makin' sure we had enough to eat, and a roof over out heads.

Look around where you live. How many people really need those diesel duallies. Most folks around here buy 'em for show. Biggest load is a few bags of groceries. But it sure sounds good idlein'. And it goes real good with the cowboy hat and Wranglers, and his babe looks real good in tight jeans with a belt buckle the size of Nevada. Never mind that the ol' boy doesn't know shineola about cows.

I run a pretty underpowered truck, and haul heavy with it. Doesn't bother me a bit to slow down to 30-40 on a hill. Gets me where I'm goin'. And if ya don't like bein' behind me, write your Congressman.

I spent near on 14 years behind the wheel. I remember runnin' a 225 Cummins. 5 and 4 tranny, 4 and 4 tranny. Big innovation was the 350 ahead of a 13spd Roadranger. By the time I quit drivin' they'd gotten to the 400 Cummins. Don't talk to me about the early Detroits loud, no torque, and leakin' old things. Best way to get ready to drive one was to slam yer hand in the door so's to get real mad..... Had to keep yer foot to the floor all day long, and don't ever let that baby go below 2 grand, it'd lunch on ya. But we got by.

Way things are goin. it's gonna be back to pullin' a plow with a mule, and breathin' mule gas.

I'm thinkin' folks want too much these days. And yes, I still hate ethanol

[duaneb55]

Originally Posted by Tractapac

No no, Duane, because there's some debate about global warming, they now call it Climate Change. Listen to the scientists about this, it's all too technical for us plebs and we should trust them to understand it for us. And then the politicians get involved and then there's all those snouts in the public trough that we have to pay for.

Global Warming has disappeared here, it's all Climate Change now. As a country we contribute less than .2% of CO2 emissions world wide but as of next year we won't be able to import standard light bulbs, they've all got to be the power saving "squint in the dark variety". No plans yet to cope with the mercury in them. Power and gas prices are set to rise, to encourage energy savings as well as encourage (force?) people to use public transport and they've budgeted to put money aside for the people that will struggle with their bills. Only trouble is for the government to give a dollar to anyone to help them it usually costs several dollars before they've given it.

This bio-fuel cary on has made life difficult for many people in lots of countries. I heard they're even having trouble getting flour o pasta in Italy because it's all gone to bio-fuel.

Global warming / climate change it's been going on for all of time. We probably haven't helped things but I doubt we can undo anything, either.

Oops - my bad Tractapac! I stand climatically corrected.

It's amazing that all the original 'true scientists' that thought there may have been some merit to the possibility of Glo... excuse me, Climate Change have all stepped forward to now expose it for the farce that it is. Trouble is, an entire 'economic system' has emerged as a result and if stopped now would have tremendous widespread financial effects. Worse yet is convincing people that the benefits of stopping it would outweigh the negative is probably a loosing battle too. To add to the problem, propagators of 'CC' are still quoting former, now retracted statements and claims of those true scientists I mentioned earlier and refuse to acknowledge the revised position of same which is why we still hear all the high percentage numbers of scientists that are reported to support the issue.

I used to have a video (a very long video) documentary on the subject in which the original proponents of CC demonstrate - scientifically - why it just ain't so and explain in great detail the origins and how those that continue to push it use false claims and half truths (yes, Al Gore being one of the biggest offenders) but I can't find it now.

I think it's safe to say we haven't begun to see the worse of this mess yet and will most likely take some pretty hard times to wake up the blind.

[Matthew]

Diesel

[Matthew]

this is uncopy wrighted info that some guy made and chose not to copywright it so as to make the info free and plentyfull. you build your own electrolisis generator to get hydrogen from water. the hydrogen is then directed into the engine via your air intake. a potentiometer controls the amount of hydrogen and is conected to your throttle linkedge. build it yourself for $500.

gas engines have been getting up to 50% better mpg
Diesel engines 77% better mpg

it looks like a hokes at first but look into it.. youll be glad you did.

[Matthew]

http://www.kmldirect.com/autos/water4cars.php

sorry for got the link ^

[Matthew]

there is cheeper instruction books out there so do some resurch


matt

[steve45]

Don't get me started on ethanol!

[duaneb55]

Originally Posted by steve45

Don't get me started on ethanol!

Get started? I gave up ethanol years ago and don't care to go back.

[Sandy]

You can't tell me this is good stuff. Costs a fortune to produce, haul to processors, and increases total gas consumption in the U.S. due to lousy mileage. Not to mention what it does to fuel system seals over time.

Top that off by increased food prices. My feed for my cattle is going through the roof because so much of the corn crop had been diverted to ethanol production. Same with the feedlots.

WELL !!!! That's certainly not the type of thinking the Goreocracy wants to hear. Mere monetary sacrifices for the benefit of the planet should be quietly accepted. Throw your body into the potholes to make for a smooth road for the Gore Machine to rumble on through.

( )

[JeffB]

I'm all for finding alternative fuels, but ethanol isn't it. Scientists have to find a way to power vehicles with something that would be totally useless and renewable otherwise. I hear they're making progress getting methane or natural gas or something out from under landfills.

[farmersamm]

Originally Posted by 69 chevy

A very large percentage of America's corn crop is made into high fructose sweetener.

Why not raise your own feed?

I produce all of my own hay, but I have to supplement with commercial high protein cubes. Cubes (some folks call it cake) have a high percentage of corn in them. Other items include other natural byproducts from cotton, soybeans, etc.

Now when the steers go to the feedlot they're finished out on corn and molasses. They start them on silage, then silage mixed with corn, then increasing amts. of corn until it's pure corn. Corn is for marbling. The fat in the muscle gives it flavor, and helps make it tender.

The feed corn is getting so high that I'm not able to get a good price for the animals on my end. Feedlot has to buy corn, so they save some $ by paying the livestock producer less.

[farmersamm]

I forgot to add, that the bulk of corn is grown for livestock feed as far as I know. With ethanol diverting the corn, it's become a mess.

[Unomike]

Originally Posted by Matthew

this is uncopy wrighted info that some guy made and chose not to copywright it so as to make the info free and plentyfull. you build your own electrolisis generator to get hydrogen from water. the hydrogen is then directed into the engine via your air intake. a potentiometer controls the amount of hydrogen and is conected to your throttle linkedge. build it yourself for $500.

gas engines have been getting up to 50% better mpg
Diesel engines 77% better mpg

it looks like a hokes at first but look into it.. youll be glad you did.

Matt,
Check out this thread .....
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=23633