6013 over the top of 6011?

[bigt]

I am welding 1 1/2 x 1/8" square tube using a hobart lx stickmate which is AC only. I am using 6011 rod to get deep penetration. I have it set on 90 amps. I can't for the life of me get a good looking weld like I can when I use 6013. My question is can I go over the 6011 with 6013 to get a nice looking weld or will I screw up the strength of the weld? Thanks

[TEK]

They are rated as the same strength rod. The first two numbers in a rod designation are a rods tensile rating in thousands of pounds.Depending on how you are assembling this 1/8 wall tubing, and how well you weld with 6013, just use it alone...

[bigt]

I am using the 1 1/2 tubing to support a platform that I am welding on top of the frame of an F150 to make a hunting buggy so I need it to be strong. Can I go ahead and weld on top of the 6011 with 6013 or by heating it up again will I screw up the penetration that I obtained with the 6011? Thanks

[Oldiron2]

You won't affect the penetration of the previous weld; just make sure to clean all the previous slag off before welding again. Because you are using mild steel which doesn't respond to heat treating, the second cycle won't do anything the first didn't already do.
As stated above, you could have used the 6013 alone and if you weren't sure about getting being able to get enough penetration, you could have beveled the joints first and built them up a bit.

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by TEK

They are rated as the same strength rod. The first two numbers in a rod designation are a rods tensile rating in thousands of pounds.Depending on how you are assembling this 1/8 wall tubing, and how well you weld with 6013, just use it alone...

First two numbers are tensile strength..60,000. second is position, what is last digit? type of flux? how does that rating work?

[TEK]

Originally Posted by bigt

I am using the 1 1/2 tubing to support a platform that I am welding on top of the frame of an F150 to make a hunting buggy so I need it to be strong. Can I go ahead and weld on top of the 6011 with 6013 or by heating it up again will I screw up the penetration that I obtained with the 6011? Thanks

You can weld over the 11, just like Oldiron2 said. Just make sure it is real clean. 6013 is a low penetrating sheet metal mud rod and doesnt like contaminants..The only part of this that bothers me is where it mounts to the frame. I think I would use 7018 for that part, with gussets...

[TEK]

Originally Posted by Matthew

First two numbers are tensile strength..60,000. second is position, what is last digit? type of flux? how does that rating work?

Yes, the last one is flux coating, and I dont recall all the codes. Someone may, or you could search it...

[David R]

I think you could go to 120 amps, for 1/8" rod, and just use the 6013. You will get full penetration if joints are prepped.

I can't get a good looking weld with 6011 either.

David

[Oldtimer]

Originally Posted by David R

I think you could go to 120 amps, for 1/8" rod, and just use the 6013. You will get full penetration if joints are prepped.

I can't get a good looking weld with 6011 either.

David

+1

You can get 7018AC rod now that works on the cracker box.

No one gets a smooth weld with 6011. It's a fast freeze rod and is also more brittle than 6013 or 7018 meaning it won't elongate as far as the other two before it breaks. Running a second pass with 6013 will refine the grain structure of the first pass and make it more ductile. Personally, I would go with 7018 but that's just my opinion.

[Donald Branscom]

Originally Posted by David R

I think you could go to 120 amps, for 1/8" rod, and just use the 6013. You will get full penetration if joints are prepped.

I can't get a good looking weld with 6011 either.

David

David - Try this with 6011.

When welding with 6011, move the rod forward 1/2 inch then back 3/8 , Forward 1/2 then back 3/8 and so on. Should give a good appearance.

[David R]

Donald,
I have tried wipping the 6011 and I can do it, but I just run 7018 or mig for almost everything.

I use 6013, but very little. Does that make me a low hydrogen snob?

David

[Oldtimer]

Probably does, David. If you are I am too. Weld it up with 7018 and it not only looks good, it don't break. Jet rod is good too if the weld is flat enough.

[paweldor]

60ll came about as the AC or DCRP version of the 6010 (DC welding only). Whipping technique is required to achieve a faily good looking weld with either rod. Prior to retirement, I carried both Lincoln 5P++++ (6010) and Lincoln 6011 on my rig. Both have deep penetration and equal strength characteristics. The rod I used the most is 7018. I carried 3/32, 1/8, 5/32 & 3/16 sizes on my truck.
For welding thin walled tubing 3/32" E7018 is just the ticket. Looks good, and is strong.
By the way, the best 7018 I've welded with is Hobart brand. Then ESAB "Atom Arc" brand. Airco used to make a great 7018MR (moisture resistant flux coating), then was bought out by Lincoln. When Lincoln changed the formula they screwed up. They totally suck, including their Excaliber label.

[tresi]

Originally Posted by David R

Donald,
I have tried wipping the 6011 and I can do it, but I just run 7018 or mig for almost everything.

I use 6013, but very little. Does that make me a low hydrogen snob?

David

I must also be a member of the snob club. I'll use 7018 unless i have a reason to use something else. Less rod to keep around and decisions to make.

[David R]

The original poster has AC only, so 7018 is out unless its 7018AC.

David

[farmersamm]

6013 must have SOME penetration. I can doggone sure burn through 11ga. with it

If I had to go after 1/8 tubing with 6011, the project would get shorter with every pass, I'd be burnin' thru so much With 6011 all I have to do is turn on the machine, and a hole appears in the metal, I don't even have to touch it!!

It's a little known secret...... 6011 was invented by Mother In Laws.

[Oldtimer]

Originally Posted by farmersamm

6013 must have SOME penetration. I can doggone sure burn through 11ga. with it

If I had to go after 1/8 tubing with 6011, the project would get shorter with every pass, I'd be burnin' thru so much With 6011 all I have to do is turn on the machine, and a hole appears in the metal, I don't even have to touch it!!

It's a little known secret...... 6011 was invented by Mother In Laws.

According to your user name you should love 6011 and 6013. I've always heard them referred to as farmer rods. I really haven't used 6013 for a long, long time because I've used DC machines, mostly SA200s until I retired and a Ranger 250 for 5 years of unretirement, and there are a lot better rods made than 6013 IMHO. Read that as 7018. 6011 made life a lot easier though. I've spent a lot of hours repairing injection leaks in the oil production industry and nothing I ever found worked better to get the water stopped. Then you could cover it up with 7018 so it would stay fixed. Used it a lot for thin material when I couldn't take it to the wire machine too.

[farmersamm]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

According to your user name you should love 6011 and 6013. I've always heard them referred to as farmer rods. I really haven't used 6013 for a long, long time because I've used DC machines, mostly SA200s until I retired and a Ranger 250 for 5 years of unretirement, and there are a lot better rods made than 6013 IMHO. Read that as 7018. 6011 made life a lot easier though. I've spent a lot of hours repairing injection leaks in the oil production industry and nothing I ever found worked better to get the water stopped. Then you could cover it up with 7018 so it would stay fixed. Used it a lot for thin material when I couldn't take it to the wire machine too.

6013 is a Godsend for crappy welders like me

Usually when I weld, I look like that goofy cow in the pic, tongue stickin' out one side of my mouth.

I sorta piddle when I puddle. Slow and easy, trying not to make a mess.

I'm limited to AC, not that I really know if it makes much difference. So I usually stick with 6013(and do a lot of beveling), or 7018AC(and still do a lot of beveling).

My mission in life is to keep others safe from my work

[David R]

I ran some 6011 today. A small home made trailer came in for NYS inspection. I could see through the top half of the 3X3 X 1/4 angle. It was perforated with rust. I ground it down the best I could and added a piece of 1/4 x2" to the side. I used the 6011 because even with grinding I couldn't get all the rust off. I ran 1/8" about 90 amps flat and 80 or 85 up and overhead. I whipped it. It worked quite well. I have pics, but forgot my camera at work. I ran a couple of sticks of 3/32 7018 at 90 amps too just to see how it would do with the rust. It ran fine I only tried it flat. All DC, crisp for the 6011 smooth for the 7018.

Pics tomorrow

David

[TozziWelding]

Originally Posted by David R

The original poster has AC only, so 7018 is out unless its 7018AC.

David

I have run plain old 7018 on my buddys cracker 100's of times and it is fine, just gotta have a steady hand.

[TozziWelding]

Originally Posted by paweldor

60ll came about as the AC or DCRP version of the 6010 (DC welding only). Whipping technique is required to achieve a faily good looking weld with either rod. Prior to retirement, I carried both Lincoln 5P++++ (6010) and Lincoln 6011 on my rig. Both have deep penetration and equal strength characteristics. The rod I used the most is 7018. I carried 3/32, 1/8, 5/32 & 3/16 sizes on my truck.
For welding thin walled tubing 3/32" E7018 is just the ticket. Looks good, and is strong.
By the way, the best 7018 I've welded with is Hobart brand. Then ESAB "Atom Arc" brand. Airco used to make a great 7018MR (moisture resistant flux coating), then was bought out by Lincoln. When Lincoln changed the formula they screwed up. They totally suck, including their Excaliber label.

I agree Hobart's 7018(418 being my favorite) is great, the Excaliber, and the Airco stuff suck.

[gtrman]

I've been welding for 30 years off and on and I would throw away 6013's. I'll admit I only tried them once and I made a good weld, but they suck.