lead paint abatement-how far from a weld?

[weldbead]

am supervising a project involving replacing cell walls in a prison. the existing paint has lead and must be abated (stripped) . there is a controversy as to how far from a weld the paint must be removed. lead apparently volatilizes at 1100 deg F..does anyone know if there are standards or would one do a test , laying in a bead and measuring with an infrared thermometer to see how the heat travels?

[MoonRise]

Regulatory headache.

Since you or your crew most likely can not do the lead abatement/stripping per the regs, ask the abatement company and/or the project regulatory POC.

Or if the question here arose because the abatment company and/or the regulatory POC aren't sure what to do, then you really-really-really need to get competent people in those positions.

Why the harsh words? Because a simple search of "lead paint" at www.osha.gov came up with the answer within the first three 'hits'.

OSHA Std 03-08-001, dated Oct 20, 1978, OSHA Program Directive #100-53, References: (a) 29 CFR 1926.353(c)(2)(i) (b) 29 CFR 1926.354(c)(1)

Minimum strip-back distance is listed as 4 inches. However, there are further requirements that may be applicable regarding PPE and temperature monitoring (via temperature-indicating crayons/markers/etc). Which also includes reference to the OSHA compliance officer doing some of the marking/measuring/checking/etc.

I leave it to the regulatory/compliance POC(s) to read through the rest of the directive and do the -rest- of their job.

But the temperature in question can not exceed 500F where there is paint present, or ventilation AND PPE forced-air respirators become required.

[specter]

We had to do some welds inside a plant that Bomadier was taking over. It was a nightmare of regulations with the area having to be sealed off, the guys wearing full regulatory suits with breathers and those damm OSHA folks watching your every more and having to approve everything. It was a job I wish we had never bid on.

[grey]

To avoid legal technicalities, this work should only be done by death row inmates

[Mondo]

Originally Posted by grey

To avoid legal technicalities, this work should only be done by death row inmates

I think this would cause even more legal mayhem. If the inmates don't file federal suit claiming cruel or unusual punishment then if they die as a result of lead contamination prior to execution then their familes will file suit claiming wrongful death.

I say replace EVERYTHING with new steel, requiring all new materials be purchased from domestic producers while shipping all the removed scrap to Korea.

-Mondo

[weldbead]

you could have an incentive program..turn out bad beads and the date moves up

[weldbead]

mondo youd have to abate it wherever you had to cut it apart in order to demo it...no way to demo it without cooking or cutting through the lead paint..

[weldbead]

many thanks for the research and help...

[tresi]

Originally Posted by grey

To avoid legal technicalities, this work should only be done by death row inmates

We woudn't want to make any of them too sick to go to the chair.

[weldbead]

if you could see the tax money spent to keep the sewage quiet youd puke

[JeffB]

I'm not sure what goes on from a financial perspective, but most methods of lead paint abatement it's just as quick and easy to take a square foot as a square inch. Especially if the lead painted surface is steel. Presumably you'll be speaking to an abatement contractor, don't be afraid to ask the pros and cons of any methods proposed. If OSHA says 4 inches, ask the contractor how much more it would cost to go 12 inches. If it's not too much more, it may be worth it for keeping OSHA happy and playing it extra safe.

[weldbead]

jeffb your point is absolutely correct. our concern about this project is due to the litigious nature of inmates and we are going to go well beyond the written requirements,

[Dualie]

I learned to lead paddle body work from an 88 year old hot rodder that had been doing it well before the second world war. I suck at it but I can get the basic functions down an get decent results.

The whole lead paint thing boggles my mind. this guy worked with molten lead day in and day out for 50+ years and ended dyeing from pneumonia. I have worked around lead insulation and lead smelting operations with very little precaution taken towards protecting anything

[weldbead]

pneumonia is i think a generic term for some lung ailments.. entirely possibly the fumes from the lead fufffed his lungs up, no?

[MoonRise]

Pneumonia is not a generic term for lung ailments.

Pnemonia is a specific physical ilness of the lungs, characterized by inflammation of the alveoli (the microscopically tiny air-filled sacs that make up the lungs, average diameter 0.2-0.3 mm) AND fluid in the alveoli as well.

Pneumonia can be caused by many different things though, including bacteria and viruses and fungi and parasites and inhaled/aspirated foreign substances.

But chronic (long-term) lead-vapor inhalation would probably not cause pneumonia. Possible, and maybe a possible contributing factor, but probably not the cause of the pneumonia. Smoking would be more of a possible contributing cause of pneumonia, as well as old age causing the person to be weaker and have a weaker immune system allowing bacteria and/or viruses more opportunity to cause infection-related pneumonia.

Some famous people listed as dying of pneumonia:

Jim Henson (Muppet's creator), from flu related pneumonia
Freddy Mercury, from AIDS-related pneumonia
Lawrence Welk
Luciano Pavarotti
Frank Gorshin (The Riddler)
William Henry Harrison, 9th US President, one month after taking office
Leo Tolstoy, author
Franz Liszt, composer
Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson
Calamity Jane
James Brown
Charles Bronson
Fred Astaire
Jim Backus (Thurston Howell III, from Gilligans Island)
Melanie Appleby, British singer dead at 23 from pneumonia bought on from a depressed immune system after treatment for spinal cancer
Raymond Barbieri, singer/frontman for NYC punk band Warzone, and former drummer for Agnostic Front, at age 35

etc

[Dualie]

I also have a buddy who's summer job in high school was shoveling raw asbestos into a mixer in the late 60's

gets checked regularly and as of yet no signs of mesophelioma. (Sp)

[jimmys]

Mesothelioma can have a 50 year latency. My next neighbor did what your buddy did for 2 summers in college in the late '50s and died of it 3 yrs ago. Make sure he keeps getting checked, but there isn't much repair work possible.
Jim

[JeffB]

I did asbestos/lead and general hazardous waste abatement for way too long. Of course, I was lucky because by the time I entered the field (early 90s) there were all kinds of safeguards in place to protect employees dealing with the stuff. Each state has slightly different rules, but pretty much all of them require annual physicals including chest x-rays and pulmonary function(breathing) tests.